My review so far

[DocWalt]

I've got a few hundred miles so far and a lot of seat time. I had a BRZ before (see my build thread link in my signature!) and a few other comparable cars and some less than comparable, haha.

My initial thoughts on things so far! Really enjoying the car, glad Subaru/Toyota refreshed it.

The whole car just feels premium vs the first gen, in pretty much every way. The top of the dash is hard plastic now I think, which is kinda lame. Some of the ergo choices are a bit odd (thinking of the door handles in particular), but generally all really good. Materials are still "cheap car" but used well so it doesn't feel cheap. The center console/armrest seems totally fine to me. I do wish it had a power port there, but whatever. I love that it can close on my phone cable totally fine so I can still have my phone out and connected to Android Auto. Cupholders themselves seem... fine? I wish there was a nicer place to put my phone, there really should be a pocket under the HVAC controls.

Audio quality seems "fine" at best which is totally fine for me. I haven't felt a need to play with the EQ yet, but it could definitely use a bit more bass. Actual speaker quality seems good for a stock system, sounds pretty clear. The radio interface is very busy looking but works well. Android Auto integration is great. Super smooth and responsive which is the most important thing to me with a radio interface. The backup camera is great during the day, but pretty trash at night as the backup lights wash out everything in view.

The turn signals are fine. Totally fine. I wish there was a bit more of a detent to bump against when doing a tap-turn lane change but it's fine. Going back to a normal car now feels weird, haha.

The high beam stalk operation is really annoying to me. Every other car I've ever driven was push to turn the high beams on, then push again to turn them off (or pull the stalk back to center on older cars) but the BRZ returns to center then you need to pull towards you to turn them off. It feels super weird pulling from the center position to turn them off. Not sure why this is so annoying, but it is.

The actual headlights are "fine" with a decent spread of light. The dead spot from the anode is not ideal but whatever. High beams are also "fine" with a better spread than the first gen HIDs but not really that great.

The active sound thingy is a bit too loud IMO. I don't mind it in normal driving but rev it out or even higher speed highway driving and it's just making noise for no good reason. I can't wait to get an exhaust on the car and turn it off, tbh. If you're leaving the car stock it would be amazing to have an option to cut the volume down a lot but leave it on. I'd imagine with the active sound turned off the car would be way too quiet.

The trunk opening is a bit narrower, I think. Seems to have the same interior space though, and no spare tire so there's some storage under the trunk floor now too.

Seats are still great. There's definitely more bolster along your thigh and the upper back area feels like it's a bit stiffer/more supportive. Headrests seem to be a bit further away which is nice for those of us that autocross/track our cars. They're still really supportive and comfortable though the materials on the base seats are pretty "meh" feeling vs the first gen BRZ seats (they do feel nicer than the materials of the first gen FR-S seats)

The steering feels heavier than a first gen at all times, but loads up a bit less mid corner so there's a bit less "feel" but more weight. It's fine, but doesn't feel quite as light on its feet and communicative. Still super responsive and easy to place the car.

The new suspension tuning feels really nice. Shocks have been dyno'd by RCE and they have similar compression to my RX-8's coilovers, so they're surprisingly stiff and responsive. Balance feels pretty good on the off ramps I've taken so far. Primacies still kinda suck, but duh?

Brakes feel good, though I find them mildly difficult to get used to vs my RX-8 or ND Miata. The brake pedal seems more responsive when you get on it quickly vs just a smooth roll on to the brakes, slightly odd. I haven't accidentally hit the stupid "panic assist" nonsense yet, nor ice mode. We'll see what happens when I autocross/track though.

Throttle response is great, sometimes it seems really numb to heel-toe blips though. When you lift off the throttle the ECU really smooths out the sudden drop in throttle which makes it smooth and easy to drive around but also kind of annoying. Driving the car harder this seems to be less of an issue.

Power & power delivery is fantastic. Just what the car needed IMO. There's still a mild torque dip but *nowhere* near as bad as the first gen. Sorta feels like a heavily tuned stock first gen, dip wise. Header & tune will fix that right up and surely make power

Shift feel is very "strong" feeling. The detent springs feel like what a first gen felt like with the MTEC springs, I guess. Still engages nicely and smoothly. A bit stiff when it's cold, but better than the first gen.

Fuel economy seems solid so far. I'm averaging about 23 mpg, I suspect I'll stay around that figure. About what I got on the first gen, I think I got around 24 mpg. Highway fuel economy still seems to be a bit over 30 mpg, so not much change there. There are a lot more underbody aero pieces now so surely that helps. Maybe marginally worse fuel economy overall than the first gen? Worthwhile trade off for the power gains! As a comparison my RX-8 gets ~15 mpg on my commute and ~20 mpg on the highway (in STX autocross trim) while my ND got ~26 mpg on my commute and ~35 mpg on the highway (in STR autocross trim)

I already want motor/diff mount upgrades. The stock motor mounts & diff mounts are hilariously soft. Makes it fairly annoying pulling away from a stop because you don't feel the drivetrain load up as you release the clutch.

Speaking of the clutch, clutch feel is similar to the first gen. I suspect it will benefit a lot from the slave cylinder mod as the first gen car, my buddy's FR-S has that and it's well worth it.

Looks are subjective, but I really really like the looks of the new gen. I do prefer the GR86 front bumper, but Subaru is awesome to work with and I love WRB, haha. The front fender bulges are still great, it makes it easy to place the car with them in your peripheral vision, that was the first thing my fiancee commented on when she drove it around!


Compared to my RX-8 the new BRZ is night and day. The RX-8 is super fun, but definitely a much older car. It feels like a different decade even vs the first gen twin, which makes sense for when they were developed. The RX-8 is faster than my buddy's first gen twin, but slower than the new twin by a lot. RX-8 just feels a lot more aggressive, but in good ways. My RX-8 is fairly modded, but not at the same time. Poly motor mounts and diff mounts, catback, coilovers, camber bushings, front swaybar, intake, tune and that's it. The RX-8 transmission feels like complete crap, super notchy and sorta crunchy into gears when it's cold (brand new trans and clutch too!). RX-8 has a very fun powerband and super addictive noise, so I always want to rev it out and my fuel economy is trash haha. It's definitely slower than the new twin, but the power delivery is *sooo* fun. The RX-8 brakes are a bit touchy vs the BRZ, even with stock pads, but the stock pads are also totally fine on track even on hot days in back to back sessions so I can't complain! RX-8 rides very well considering the spring rates in use (thanks Shaftworks USA!) and no doubt has fantastic suspension, but the twin is shockingly close to the same feel when driving the car hard, assuming you ignore the extra body roll and such. Driver inputs feel the same, which is awesome.

Compared to my prior ND2 Miata, the new twin feels both more expensive and less expensive in a lot of different ways. The ND interior styling is on point and everything feels really nice... Except for where it's clearly *really* cheap. It's hard to compare totally stock versus totally stock as I had MCS shocks on the ND within a month or two, but the ND seemed to absorb large bumps better but it was super floaty and *very* soft so no surprise there. The ND powerband was smoother but felt slower because of it. Straight line acceleration is about identical, but the BRZ feels more dramatic because of the slight torque dip I guess. ND steering feel was nearly non-existent and the twins is miles better. ND was easier to hustle along a back road, the pedal placement and ease of use was *perfect* for heel-toe and such. BRZ is still really really good, but I think it needs a tune to turn off some of the emissions BS that dulls the throttle response in certain situations. ND shifter was definitely not as notchy/less stiff detents but it was also always sorta mechanical feeling and you felt things working to get into gear. The BRZ is more notchy but filters out all of that mechanical feel as it slots into gear. Both cars were different but still great. The BRZ is definitely a more practical car, even with the fairly useless rear seats. The ND wasn't supposed to be a practical car and it always carried everything I ever wanted until I was moving, so I can't complain at all!

[rawpoly]

Timely-
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=224

I drove my friend's ND2 back to back with the BRZ and had some thoughts too- His was stock and the club version.

• I felt the mx-5's gearbox was much better. Felt direct, less notchy and more mechanical.
• There was wayyyy more body roll in the mx-5.
• The engine felt smoother in the mx-5 but less powerful for sure. It also sounded a little nicer- they both don't sound great TBH.
• The MX-5 feels more expensive at touchpoints etc. BRZ looks like they put all money into the chassis and engine. (Well it also is)

tldr: You can't go wrong with either one. I need a back seat, am a taller driver and don't particularly care for the convertible aspect and hence got the BRZ.

[DocWalt]

I agree on the shifter feel, the BRZ's feels "video gamey" in a way. I do like that it filters out that mechanical feel though, I never like that sorta "chunky" mechanical feel in any shifter.



FWIW I'm 6'4" and the ND was tight but totally fine, but my proportions are very evenly balanced so I fit nicely into cars that I "shouldn't" fit into.


I have tons of headroom in the BRZ even with a helmet on. ND was great, but the top needed to be down to wear a helmet. Once I lowered the ND seat with aftermarket seat rails it was fine.

[Racecomp Engineering]

I checked a bunch of OEM suspension parts crossover 1st vs 2nd gen....forgot to check motor mounts and transmission mounts. Would be nice to see if the old STI motor and trans mounts fit the new gen.

- Andrew

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I checked a bunch of OEM suspension parts crossover 1st vs 2nd gen....forgot to check motor mounts and transmission mounts. Would be nice to see if the old STI motor and trans mounts fit the new gen.

- Andrew

Part numbers are different, but they look identical. I didn't take stuff apart to compare, but I'm hopeful the STI motor and trans mounts fit. I had them on my first gen and they were what the car should have shipped with IMO.

[Midnightsky]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Part numbers are different, but they look identical. I didn't take stuff apart to compare, but I'm hopeful the STI motor and trans mounts fit. I had them on my first gen and they were what the car should have shipped with IMO.

My 2017 Mazda 3 was the same, the rear engine mount made all the difference in drive/shift feel. I will be planning similar upgrades on the BRZ.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Part numbers are different, but they look identical. I didn't take stuff apart to compare, but I'm hopeful the STI motor and trans mounts fit. I had them on my first gen and they were what the car should have shipped with IMO.

Well, I better get the STI set I have sitting here on my 2016 before our 2022 shop car gets here because Myles will try to convince me to put it on that instead .

- Andrew

[FrickingReallySlow]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I checked a bunch of OEM suspension parts crossover 1st vs 2nd gen....forgot to check motor mounts and transmission mounts. Would be nice to see if the old STI motor and trans mounts fit the new gen.

- Andrew

Maybe the new 2022 ones are new since its stiffer? would be nice if the new ones are STI mount durometer rating. Just from pictures they look almost the same with the exception of the locating square

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

Maybe the new 2022 ones are new since its stiffer? would be nice if the new ones are STI mount durometer rating. Just from pictures they look almost the same with the exception of the locating square

They're definitely not the STI mounts, they're really soft.

[DeeAich]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Throttle response is great, sometimes it seems really numb to heel-toe blips though. When you lift off the throttle the ECU really smooths out the sudden drop in throttle which makes it smooth and easy to drive around but also kind of annoying. Driving the car harder this seems to be less of an issue.

Numb is a good description. I feel like I'm underestimating the short gear ratios a lot.

[timurrrr]

Thanks for the write-up!

Originally Posted by DocWalt

ND steering feel was nearly non-existent and the twins is miles better.

Did your ND have a factory strut bar, aftermarket one, or none?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

The trunk opening is a bit narrower, I think. Seems to have the same interior space though, and no spare tire so there's some storage under the trunk floor now too.

Just confirming, the opening is indeed 3.5"-4" narrower. Dimensions inside the trunk are exactly the same.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147888

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Thanks for the write-up!



Did your ND have a factory strut bar, aftermarket one, or none?

ND had factory shock tower bracing, I tried with and without it bolted in and made no noticeable difference (as I'd expect since the twin a-arms were bolted to the subframe)

[eyeballs]

I had an s2 rx-8 a couple years ago, and agree the rotary power is way more fun (plus catless midpipe fireballs). It was super fresh with only 30k miles (though rebuilt title). More comfy/roomy as a daily compared to the brz and amazingly roomy back seats. Revving it out often for "preventative maintenance" also adds to the fun. I feel like the BRZ is the closest I could get for a new car. Haven't driven the BRZ on track yet, but the rx-8 felt so effortless to drive at 10/10ths I doubt the BRZ will match it (though coolant temps were occasionally an issue on track). Too bad mazda killed the rotary, I liked those quirky motors. Nothing beats a miata for on track fun though, I've had 3 NBs.