Takeda exhaust rusting...

[Rayme]

It's spring shortly. Take it off and brush it off with a steel wheel then put some high temp/bbq paint on it.

That's what I would do.

[trish07]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

It's spring shortly. Take it off and brush it off with a steel wheel then put some high temp/bbq paint on it.

That's what I would do.

We will probably paint it anyway....but Fuck AFE....never buy anything again from this company.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by trish07

We will probably paint it anyway....but Fuck AFE....never buy anything again from this company.

You should see how they feel about about this thread.

Ft86 club personal army? Fb spam their wall linking this thread. Might help you out cause I'm sure they don't want to lose market on the hottest tuning platform

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by trish07

Also, I may be wrong, but I don't see anything about the "409" stainless, here's the description of the exhaust from their website:



http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...0-P&print=true

They state they used 304 for the tips which means they used inferior material for the rest and we're assuming 409 since that's the logical choice for aftermarket exhaust. Could be mild steel I guess.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Minovsky]

OMFG I was about to purchase the afe... good thing i held off!! > sorry to see this happening

[trish07]

OK! It's WORST than we thought! My husband went to the garage yesterday to make sure there was no loss. Fortunatly, no loss was found. Good news.

BUT, the exhaust is COMPLETLY rusted, in a few months, there will be holes in it for sure!!! He took a LOT of pictures showing the weakness of the exhaust.

I will NOT post them now because I'm presently arguing with AFE to find a compromise. If they don't give me any options, I will post the pictures to make sur nobody else buy this cheap exhaust.

I'll keep you posted!

[Foobar]

So you're saying it's rusting all the way through and it's not just surface rust? If that's the case and Takeda insists it's normal wear and tear, I'd strip off the rust and spray paint it with an exhaust paint like VHT http://www.vhtpaint.com/products/flameproof/

Cover everything but the tips (or including if you want to go stealth I guess).

[trish07]

Originally Posted by Foobar

So you're saying it's rusting all the way through and it's not just surface rust? If that's the case and Takeda insists it's normal wear and tear, I'd strip off the rust and spray paint it with an exhaust paint like VHT http://www.vhtpaint.com/products/flameproof/

Cover everything but the tips (or including if you want to go stealth I guess).

Not it is not only surface rust. Parts of it are eated by rust, especially the welds.

[Shankenstein]

I understand you guys would like to start a riot... but they used a material that is pretty good for exhaust tubing. The parts that are exposed are 304, and will stay shiny. The parts that are not exposed are 409 and will develop a rusty surface coating.

My RAV4's custom exhaust was done with 2.25" 409 SS with a 304 tip. Same exact situation. I'm a mechanical engineer, and I chose everything to be this way.

I've had it for 8 years now, and there's spotty rust on the 409 sections and the tips yellowed a bit. No holes, besides the gaps in the welds. Heat affected zones (from welding) did rust sooner than straight pipes. This is normal.

If there are holes, then you should simply request AFE provide you with the certifications for the materials used in that lot. They have records, and as a loyal customer, it's fair to help them hunt down the cause of a premature failure.

Check the wall thickness and material specs. If there was a clerical error in using too thin of piping or the wrong material ... get a replacement and try to ensure that they have a QC policy AS MATERIALS ARE DELIVERED. If there is an error, request a replacement, and enjoy your exhaust. If there's not an error, it's up to their warranty program to decide if your corrosion is sufficient to replace it. It's an engineered product, not a perfect product. It will wear, and if it's premature... they will replace it, to keep their reputation.

Raising hell on a forum is a last resort. If they are falsely representing a product (which they're not) or under-engineering a product (no evidence of that), then you should try the friendly resolutions first. If you have holey pipes and they refuse to warranty their products or provide justification for their materials... go ahead with the riot. There's plenty of steps to consider first though.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Foobar

They state they used 304 for the tips which means they used inferior material for the rest and we're assuming 409 since that's the logical choice for aftermarket exhaust. Could be mild steel I guess.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

This is why people need to educate themselves and investigate the products.

If it rusts, and they make no claim of it being 304 or better (or even full stainless at all) it is a too bad, so sad situation.

This is why I have been a bit of a d!ck to more than a few vendors when it comes to materials, fabrication method and country of origin.

Materials, people have a basic understanding that 304 is the one to have in exhausts. But there is more to it. Country of origin, or better, country of quality assurance plays a role in more than just fitment or welds cracking. The machinery company I work for buy literally tons of steel and aluminum per year (possibly even per month). The planning and purchasing departments are penny pinching misers. On the occasion that they've sourced cheaper material we've always ended up getting burned. Aluminum sold as 6061-T6 that isn't in the T6 condition (useless as it has half its strength), 304L stainless tubing that is out of round with a wall thickness variance of over 25%, 1060 induction-hardened linear shaft that isn't hardened. Each time it is never the whole batch, but from 10% to as much as 25% in the case of the linear shaft. All of it was Chinese-sourced from small Chinese or Canadian distributors. The stuff from US sources, or Chinese production via large corporations like NSK has had practically zero issues.

Any exhaust company that sources in China has a huge risk of quality issues because they don't oversea/own/partner with the factories. The factories run on razor thin margins and one rejected piece can wipe out the profit from a lot of sales. (Yes there will be ranges of factory quality, ranging from ok to terrible. But never good.) So a lot 'slips through' QA. You end up with a few people getting a good fit and durable system, another that needs a hammer for install, and another that fits ok but rusts out in 6 months. All from the same company.

Now as much as people get boners for the Japanese companies, they are not all huge and powerful to the point of being able to maintain suitable quality assurances over the entire supply chain. Not even Ford (transmissions) or Siemens (? German high-speed train) can do this. Add to the fact that two of the biggest Japanese aftermarket companies Trust/Greddy and HKS have been having tough times financially and you have a recipe for cost-cutting problems.

So you either get outsourced production with unverifiable supply chains, or material substitutions. Or both. (One or both of the Greddy/HKS FR-S exhausts in the DSport review use 409 stainless.)

There's more to this, but this is already too long and too ranty...

TLDR:

Nameless, Motiv and JDL are beautifully TIG welded, USA-made with USA-sourced 304L. Nameless is also testing the superior titanium-enriched 321 stainless.



Perrin and Borla are adequately MIG welded, USA-made with unconfirmed source 304.

Buy from these companies.

[trish07]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

I understand you guys would like to start a riot... but they used a material that is pretty good for exhaust tubing. The parts that are exposed are 304, and will stay shiny. The parts that are not exposed are 409 and will develop a rusty surface coating.

My RAV4's custom exhaust was done with 2.25" 409 SS with a 304 tip. Same exact situation. I'm a mechanical engineer, and I chose everything to be this way.

I've had it for 8 years now, and there's spotty rust on the 409 sections and the tips yellowed a bit. No holes, besides the gaps in the welds. Heat affected zones (from welding) did rust sooner than straight pipes. This is normal.

If there are holes, then you should simply request AFE provide you with the certifications for the materials used in that lot. They have records, and as a loyal customer, it's fair to help them hunt down the cause of a premature failure.

Check the wall thickness and material specs. If there was a clerical error in using too thin of piping or the wrong material ... get a replacement and try to ensure that they have a QC policy AS MATERIALS ARE DELIVERED. If there is an error, request a replacement, and enjoy your exhaust. If there's not an error, it's up to their warranty program to decide if your corrosion is sufficient to replace it. It's an engineered product, not a perfect product. It will wear, and if it's premature... they will replace it, to keep their reputation.

Raising hell on a forum is a last resort. If they are falsely representing a product (which they're not) or under-engineering a product (no evidence of that), then you should try the friendly resolutions first. If you have holey pipes and they refuse to warranty their products or provide justification for their materials... go ahead with the riot. There's plenty of steps to consider first though.

On their website, they only mention the 304 stainless steel. They do not clearly say that the rest of the exhaust is made of an other type of stainless steel.

I can understand that an exhaust can have rust spots. The OEM exhaust has some, it is "normal", but if you'd see the pictures, you will understand how it is not normal to be that rusted after only 3 months.

I really want to help them for sure! If they had told me "Send us more pictures, we will investigate on this and keep you posted, we are sorry etc." I would have been pleased and patient. But their answer was "wow"....like if they didn't care. Just "clean it yourself", no replacement, it is normal. I mean, I had trouble twice with my BC coilovers on my Yaris, BC was so great with me, their service was awesome. They investigate, they sent me new shocks etc. They helped me fast and provided me with a very good service. I understand that some products could have issues, it is normal, especially for new models.

I mean, the price of the Takeda exhaust is the same as the Borla or the HKS and more expensive than the Nameless....I mean, you can hope for a pretty good product?! If I had paid $400, I would just live with it....

My husband is also a mecanical engineers. He loves cars. He loves the best products for our cars. He don't care about the price. He thought the Takeda was the best choice because he found it more nicely designed and the price was matching the other choices. He read the description of it on their website, mentioning the 304 stainless steel.

Even if the stainless was cheaper for the rest of the exhaust, beleive me, from what the pictures are showing, there is no way it could be normal

I really hope AFE will work WITH me, not against me. But if they chose not to help and ignore, I will not argue with them 3-4 months, loosing my time as my lease for the car ends in 2 years.

[fledonfoot]

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, i went through a warranty claim with them a while ago. It was not fun, and has soured me off them.

My first exhaust had a major fitment issue, where the left tip stuck out past the bumper an inch, and the right side set in about an inch. I'd read several threads about them being a little off center but this was not acceptable.

I took some pictures, and emailed them. I heard nothing back for over a week. I called the place I ordered the parts from and they got me in touch with one of their regional sales reps through their distributor. This guy was great. I was talking to someone in the office on the design team to figure out the problem.

They asked me to reinstall it and try a few things. I went along with it, but nothing changed the fitment. They asked to take some measurements around the hangers, I sent them in and heard nothing back to two weeks.

I got back in touch with their sales manager and flipped out. I had a phone call back from them within an hour. Ultimately, they said it was installation error.

When I told this to the sales manager, I politely explained that I work for a Toyota dealership, and that they're telling me that two Toyota Master level techs can't install an exhaust properly? After a lot of back and forth they agreed to send me a replacement. They said they'd put it on the jig first to make sure it's right.

It showed up a week later. It didn't fit. The left tip is still 1/2" out, but it's nowhere as bad. I've tried it on a friend's car. Doesn't fit that either.

This tells me that they either have a bad design or poor QC. Mostly, i learned they don't care.

[No Limit Motorsport]

After seeing this picture, I can imagine how bad that rusty pipe hanging out the bottom looks. If you were going to use cheap materials at least hide it! SMH

[Shankenstein]

As Dimman said, decisions are often made by people who don't know any better. If a Chinese company can deliver a product for 10% less, it's difficult to justify using a Korean or US manufacturer instead.

If the product you get is identical and consistent, it's fine... but my experience (too) has been poor QC due to low overhead, inconsistent source materials, and poorly trained (and equipped) technicians building the parts.

Given the evidence of Trish, NLM, and Fled (I'm sure others will appear), it seems pretty likely that aFe is choosing profit over customer satisfaction. They're allowed to... but in a modern capitalist society, most consumers will read reviews before they buy something expensive.

Since there are better options, let's use the forums to bring light to an inferior product... and help people get the good ones: Nameless, Motiv, Perrin, Borla, etc.

Torches for sale!