Any good reason to stick with 1st Gen?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I drove yesterday in anger. Was much fun. I also took my daughter to try and teacher her stick. Was not much fun. Many, many stalls. Eventually I said, "Go watch like 40 youtube videos on how to drive stick, and then we'll try again."

Don't know if you mentioned this to her, but make sure you instruct her "if it starts to stall push the clutch in not let out". Once folks get that it takes very little time to master.. I tought my wife and 3 sons each how to drive stick around a parking lot without stalling in less than 20 minutes (on different occasions).

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Don't know if you mentioned this to her, but make sure you instruct her "if it starts to stall push the clutch in not let out". Once folks get that it takes very little time to master.. I tought my wife and 3 sons each how to drive stick around a parking lot without stalling in less than 20 minutes (on different occasions).

I told it to her several times. Coordination is not her gift. Panic is. It didn't help that she'd rear ended somebody in her regular car a few weeks ago. She's all sorts of skittish now.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I told it to her several times. Coordination is not her gift. Panic is. It didn't help that she'd rear ended somebody in her regular car a few weeks ago. She's all sorts of skittish now.

After demonstrating to my grandkids that stalling was nothing to fear, I had them master starting out with only the clutch and letting the engine maintain itself. Once they could feather the clutch, I cut them loose with the gas pedal. Worked like a charm for them.

[Sasquachulator]

I think the main component to teaching stick is actually having them get used to three components of the stick as a separate entity in order to understand h ow they work/feel:
-How the clutch feels (since the grab point and pedal travel is actually different in every car)
-How to control the throttle (maintain steady RPM, mostly at low RPM)
-Shifter action (the one thing i ended up realizing about the shifter is that you dont need to forcefuly or apply heavy pressure to "shove" the shifter into each gate.)

You can teach them coordination all you want but if they have no idea how much throttle pressure they need to apply or what they actually need to feel for the clutch, theres going to be a lot of trial and error based stalling until they somehow find out how everything works together.

I taught my nephew with my old Scion iM and he got used to it pretty quick. Maybe about 3 stalls before he was able to get the car moving from a stop fairly consistently without stalling, or jerking. But nerves got to him (makes you lose focus) so he'd have to kind of shake it off before trying again (that fear of stalling, or the thought of doing something wrong could damage the car...you know that type of feeling)

Oh and even as the owner of the car, deep down you are clenching with every stall by another driver, but you know its something that happens and something that isn't to be feared.

I've seen enough videos on youtube where someone is teaching stick and they don't go over these 3 main points so the student is bobbing, stalling and jerking all over the place. And the "teacher" is just continuously barking the "you have to coordinate the clutch and throttle" at them.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by WildCard600

I'm just saying if you're only making $170k you probably should worry about maxing you 401k, IRA and HSA before you run out and finance a $100k vehicle every 3-4 years. I had to learn the hard way, most people don't learn.

Only $170k? Sorry, that's just kind of a funny statement. That's like top 8% of income earners.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I think the main component to teaching stick is actually having them get used to three components of the stick as a separate entity in order to understand h ow they work/feel:
-How the clutch feels (since the grab point and pedal travel is actually different in every car)
-How to control the throttle (maintain steady RPM, mostly at low RPM)
-Shifter action (the one thing i ended up realizing about the shifter is that you dont need to forcefuly or apply heavy pressure to "shove" the shifter into each gate.)

You can teach them coordination all you want but if they have no idea how much throttle pressure they need to apply or what they actually need to feel for the clutch, theres going to be a lot of trial and error based stalling until they somehow find out how everything works together.

I taught my nephew with my old Scion iM and he got used to it pretty quick. Maybe about 3 stalls before he was able to get the car moving from a stop fairly consistently without stalling, or jerking. But nerves got to him (makes you lose focus) so he'd have to kind of shake it off before trying again (that fear of stalling, or the thought of doing something wrong could damage the car...you know that type of feeling)

Oh and even as the owner of the car, deep down you are clenching with every stall by another driver, but you know its something that happens and something that isn't to be feared.

I've seen enough videos on youtube where someone is teaching stick and they don't go over these 3 main points so the student is bobbing, stalling and jerking all over the place. And the "teacher" is just continuously barking the "you have to coordinate the clutch and throttle" at them.

I'd say another key component is to get the instructor OUT of the car as quickly as possible. You want to be in the vehicle with the student to be able to sense what they're doing wrong and provide advice, but as soon as they're doing reasonably well (can get the car moving from a stop, and stopped from moving), get out of the car.

As you say, they're incredibly self-conscious about stalling and lurching - all the things that make in unpleasant to be in the car with them. It's SO much easier to practice when you're not as acutely-aware that every mistake you made is immediately apparent to your passenger/instructor.

Big mall parking lots are perfect. Particularly these days as most malls are failing and are usually half-full or less. You have wide-open spaces where obstacles won't appear unexpectedly, but there's also no expectation of moving at any real speed (20mph, maybe 30 tops). All you really need to do is master starting from a stop, shifting into second, slowing down for turns, and stopping without killing the motor. Then a little bit of using reverse.

After that, you can turn the driver loose on city streets (low traffic, ideally) and the rest takes care of itself.

[pope]

“I” have only owned one automatic transmission so far (my first car), so when my wife and i first started dating (long after that car was gone) I taught her do drive manual by starting with the “In Case Of Emergencies and I’m Incapacitated” procedure: rev to 2500 and release the clutch on a three count.

Actually, it started with her shifting the trans while I drove, which familiarized her with the shift procedure and was something she just liked doing.

It was years later before she would be willing to learn proper start technique, as long as she could get a car moving in an emergency, she refused (more or less still does) to have anything to do with being in the driver’s seat unless there’s an automatic transmission.

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Only $170k? Sorry, that's just kind of a funny statement. That's like top 8% of income earners.

It didn't quite put you in the top 10% as of 2020, and with inflation it's probably down to about top 15% but I get your point. It's still not new BMW every couple years and huge McMansion money, unless you want to live paycheck to paycheck for most of your life.

I guess if you don't mind a 100 mile commute or can somehow live in deep Appalachia and still pull down that kind of salary you could maybe pull it off. But within an hour of most places with any real economic opportunity it isn't much money any at all these days.

Median home price in Denver is about 585k. Let's assume a best case scenario of 117k (20%) down payment, 7.4% interest rate, 1% property tax, and 2k/yr homeowner's insurance, the monthly note is $3,894.50

170k salary after tax in Denver is about 110k annually or $9160/month. That's not accounting for any retirement savings, health insurance, family care, transportation, or any other common expenses.

Assuming you ONLY have to pay your mortgage and somehow have $117,000 already lying about for a down payment, your DTI is 42%. That's considered pretty bad out of the gate. I guess if you don't eat food, walk to work and don't mind sitting in your dark house without electricity or running water you might be able to put some money away.


*edit*

I should also point out that the 170k number is total compensation, including RSU and assuming 100% bonus payout. Waiting for your rsu shares to vest or a slow year where bonus payments are curtailed due to lack of performance by the company at large can result in a not insignificant variance in compensation.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by WildCard600

It didn't quite put you in the top 10% as of 2020, and with inflation it's probably down to about top 15% but I get your point. It's still not new BMW every couple years and huge McMansion money, unless you want to live paycheck to paycheck for most of your life.

I guess if you don't mind a 100 mile commute or can somehow live in deep Appalachia and still pull down that kind of salary you could maybe pull it off. But within an hour of most places with any real economic opportunity it isn't much money any at all these days.

Median home price in Denver is about 585k. Let's assume a best case scenario of 117k (20%) down payment, 7.4% interest rate, 1% property tax, and 2k/yr homeowner's insurance, the monthly note is $3,894.50

170k salary after tax in Denver is about 110k annually or $9160/month. That's not accounting for any retirement savings, health insurance, family care, transportation, or any other common expenses.

Assuming you ONLY have to pay your mortgage and somehow have $117,000 already lying about for a down payment, your DTI is 42%. That's considered pretty bad out of the gate. I guess if you don't eat food, walk to work and don't mind sitting in your dark house without electricity or running water you might be able to put some money away.


*edit*

I should also point out that the 170k number is total compensation, including RSU and assuming 100% bonus payout. Waiting for your rsu shares to vest or a slow year where bonus payments are curtailed due to lack of performance by the company at large can result in a not insignificant variance in compensation.

Yeah, if you live somewhere more affordable......I paid $156k for a completely renovated 1800sq ft 3/2/2 in OKC in 2017, corner lot, big ceilings.

People are moving here because it's so much cheaper. The appreciation of my house is crazy.

It just sucks our politics are so insane.

[WNDSRFR]

Or
You could live in a place with a much lower cost of living.

Somewhere maybe like Oklahoma?

[WNDSRFR]

Crap
Beat me to it.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Or
You could live in a place with a much lower cost of living.

Somewhere maybe like Oklahoma?

I know that's a shot at me, we don't like the politics here. But we also don't want a massive mortgage. We make way above the average, but we like having extra to do what we want.

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Or
You could live in a place with a much lower cost of living.

Somewhere maybe like Oklahoma?

Sure, just uproot your kids and break families apart and move away from all your friends and then when Oklahoma becomes overrun and too expensive just move on to the next place like nomads.

Careers and stability are overrated anyway, let's chase materialism.

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Yeah, if you live somewhere more affordable......I paid $156k for a completely renovated 1800sq ft 3/2/2 in OKC in 2017, corner lot, big ceilings.

People are moving here because it's so much cheaper. The appreciation of my house is crazy.

It just sucks our politics are so insane.

That's how it starts. Good luck.