stroker kits on this engine are a waste (save the Toda thread)

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

Resolve: Stroker kits are a phenomenal waste of money on this engine and arguably most small engines except in cases of incredibly light cars where single digit increases in horsepower or torque figures truly demonstrate in use or some odd spec series racing where forced induction is not allowed.

A person would spend at least twice, likely much more than the cost of an off the shelf forced induction solution by ripping their engine down to install one of these and you can port it and polish it and balance it and and dry sump it and pour virgin tears on it , whatever and still not be able to beat a properly installed and tuned turbo or supercharger kit.

Now, to clarify, it is you money and you are going to spend it as you will and while I find it wasteful, if you are going in eyes open, know these facts, are not actually trying to beat an FI setup, but just really like the freak factor of the whole thing and you execute it well, that's cool. I totally get doing weird things just to do them and will join the chorus of those lauding your build.

Additionally, if you boring and stroking this engine to within an inch of its life is accompanied with strapping on the nastiest turbo you can spin, obviously, you are on that next level and it tracks with what you are doing, insanity, and, again, I love you.

People like that are few and far between, though, so, if you are going to sit there and opine that doing all this work just to still be really slow, but not REALLY really slow, you are a fool and as the old saying goes, you and your money have been parted. I will clown on you mercilessly and invite you to go out and defend your assertions at the track against your next door neighbor's mom's grocery getter and you better hope it is curvy as hell too.

Don't waste my time with emotional BS arguments about "you don't get it." First, I do get the appeal of NA, I've had some fun ones and the scream is nice and, oh, a perfectly tuned set of sidedrafts is a thing of beauty, but as my 1.8 Silvia got beat time and time again by that 1.6 Civic, the fact remained that some engines respond better and are worth the time and a religious adherence to uber lightness is required to make all that work, well work, if you intend to go faster than other people, or, fast, at all. This is not that engine and this is not that car. You bolt your 2.1-3 in a BRZ that is stripped to raw steel with every removable panel made of carbon fiber, no accessories, climate control, hell seats, save for a featherlight bucket for the driver now we can talk. Oh wait, that kid in the stock FRS behind you cranked the boost up on his Greddy kit, now you lose again. Dumbass.

Lots of people want more power out of this car. I understand. While it has yet to frustrate me to the point of action, I would have dropped some more money on the table for an STI something with 250hp and a flat torque curve. Stroker kits are not the way to real power if that is your goal. They are fun to look at, but are really just like a girl with three boobs. They get your attention, but they don't outperform a two boob model.

Cue V calling me a fascist.

Add the caveat N/A stroker kits are a waste. Increasing displacement and lowering compression with the plan for FI is a GREAT idea on this motor.

Jaden

[D K]

Originally Posted by WHITE

@D K

Not trying to start a war here, but just want to say that it is possible to maintain a stock rod stroke ratio with a 90mm stroke...however I know this isn't for everybody becuase it would be rather expensive since your talking custom rods and custom pistons.

Of course it is.
Changing the pin height, getting custom rods.


Now, do the SAME mods to a stock stroke, what do you get?

A better rod ratio.

Anything is possible, question being is it woth it?

I stand by my answer and say I dont think its worth it.

[D K]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

@wbradley


+ headgasket

Care to expand on that?

[Sammakko]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

1/ This is thread is going to be full of opinion.
2/ People's opinions differ
3/ Opinions don't have to be rational. Actually, just by being human will disqualify you from being rational 100% of the time.
4/ Why do you care what people do with their own money?
5/ New cars are a waste of money
6/ Any mods are a waste of money
7/ I enjoy seeing things done that aren't done very often
8/

9/ arguing on the internet is
10/ this thread needs more LS1's, Stance, Rimzzz, and bling.

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by D K

Care to expand on that?

HKS offers three different metalic headgasket for the FA20 to use in addition of the stroker kit. 0.5 , 0.7 , 1 mm they respectively lower the compression ratio (in case of a FI setup) to 12.4 , 12.1 and 11.7

It doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference and all elements put together offer that litle more wiggle room for tuning and more output.

[D K]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

HKS offers three different metalic headgasket for the FA20 to use in addition of the stroker kit. 0.5 , 0.7 , 1 mm they respectively lower the compression ratio (in case of a FI setup) to 12.4 , 12.1 and 11.7

It doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference and all elements put together offer that litle more wiggle room for tuning and more output.

So you dont care that you are advancing the cam timing on one side and retarding it on the other side?

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by D K

So you dont care that you are advancing the cam timing on one side and retarding it on the other side?

But in my case, Cams also have been changed for the HKS Vcam set, so everything works together in perfect harmony that's the point And if you are intrested here is the profile of the cams ...

[D K]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

But in my case, Cams also have been changed for the HKS Vcam set, so everything works together in perfect harmony that's the point And if you are intrested here is the profile of the cams ...

So youre saying HKS makes different cams for each of the headgasket thicknesses?

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by D K

So youre saying HKS makes different cams for each of the headgasket thicknesses?

No of course not, but that's the job of your tuning shop to tweak everything to make it work for the best
That's why this kit has been created by HKS, for tuning capacity.

[D K]

Right on bro.

Gotta have perfect harmony!



Soooooo, what about the issue of cams being out of sync?

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by D K

Right on bro.

Gotta have perfect harmony!



Soooooo, what about the issue of cams being out of sync?

There is no asynchrony here, yet your tuning shop will have to tweak the settings for fuel, ignition, valve timing through the ECU. The HKS cams just offer a litle more lift and duration, whatever the gasket.

No issues, no problems, everything works perfectly, IF you use all the elements together, and a proper tune, if any of these isn't present, it will be a mess.

I mean, 2.5 times more power than stock at the wheels ... torque multiplied by 2 as well, I guess "it works"

[D K]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

There is no asynchrony here, yet your tuning shop will have to tweak the settings for fuel, ignition, valve timing through the ECU. The HKS cams just offer a litle more lift and duration, whatever the gasket.

No issues, no problems, everything works perfectly, IF you use all the elements together, and a proper tune, if any of these isn't present, it will be a mess.

I mean, 2.5 times more power than stock at the wheels ... torque multiplied by 2 as well, I guess "it works"

Ok

Let me know what happens when you alter cam timing on your hks race engine

[Sammakko]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

There is no asynchrony here, yet your tuning shop will have to tweak the settings for fuel, ignition, valve timing through the ECU. The HKS cams just offer a litle more lift and duration, whatever the gasket.

No issues, no problems, everything works perfectly, IF you use all the elements together, and a proper tune, if any of these isn't present, it will be a mess.

I mean, 2.5 times more power than stock at the wheels ... torque multiplied by 2 as well, I guess "it works"

back in the day, timing CHAIN vehicles, as well as a few timing belt engines, suffered from weird stuff happening with thicker than stock head gaskets. adjustments had to be made, due to the extra thickness. the old school solution was adjustable cam gears. in the current world, with all sorts of VVTi etc, it's easy to just forget about the thickness of a gasket being able to affect timing. it does, but.... always a good thinking point for your tuner.;


and good goddamn, please stop using the term "tweak" to describe engine tuning. if you don't know what your "tuner" is doing, please don't use "tweak" to describe his or her actions... #meth

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by Sammakko

back in the day, timing CHAIN vehicles, as well as a few timing belt engines, suffered from weird stuff happening with thicker than stock head gaskets. adjustments had to be made, due to the extra thickness. the old school solution was adjustable cam gears. in the current world, with all sorts of VVTi etc, it's easy to just forget about the thickness of a gasket being able to affect timing. it does, but.... always a good thinking point for your tuner.;

and good goddamn, please stop using the term "tweak" to describe engine tuning. if you don't know what your "tuner" is doing, please don't use "tweak" to describe his or her actions... #meth

Tweak means what it means, change , alter, modify parameters ... I am not going to write down by the menu all the tuning strategy we applied on the engine, but yes " he tweaked the timings" the VVT settings and everything at our disposal through the ECUTeck platform ... and as you explained that's why there is no reason to worry about the head gasket.