Temp related knock

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

In theory you can get a rough idea of EGTs if you log O2 current and resistance due to the way the sensor is heated up and kept at a constant temperature. There's a few threads on RomRaider about it. Flatten the IAT comp, you could even try temporarily flattening the WOT area of your fuel map and see what happens to EGTs.

I went the lazy way and increased the amount of compensation above 23.04 g/s (above 2.30v maf sensor) and 104f by the smallest amount of adjustment allowed. Unfortunately, the weather has been cooling down so I may not be able to test the changes.




I was looking though my recent logs before and after I made changes the the ignition/temp compensation tables and discovered something odd. There was one log with more aggressive ignition advance than the other logs with the same tune in the absence of knock corrections. Half a degree more than other logs between 5000 to 6000rpms. Where did this extra half a degree of advance come from?

Aggressive ignition advance 87*f ambient:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...8&mark=109-121

Typical amount ignition advance 75*f (same tune as above log):
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...7&mark=121-100

Most recent log after changing ignition/temp comp table 72*f:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...3&mark=100-119

[solidONE]

After applying the above changes I started getting this strange spikes of FLKC that doesn't seem to effect the ignition advance. No decrease in ignition advance logged at the spikes of FLKC. Also, the AFR doesn't seem to be much richer than before. Although I did change the maf scale a bit, but the scale was untouched in the CL range of 2.8v and up.

95f ambient temps with MAF temp comp applied (Spikes of FLKC with no change in the ignition timing): http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...&zoom=921-1197

105f ambient before temp compesation was applied (plateaus of FLKC with ignition being dialed back):
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...12&zoom=54-354

This spiking of the FLKC is also present at lower IAT's after the changes were made:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...4&zoom=221-578

The spikes are pretty big, up to -3.7 degrees of FLKC but with no visible effect on the total ignition advance seen in the log. No timing being pulled by the ECU. Strange... very strange..

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

After applying the above changes I started getting this strange spikes of FLKC that doesn't seem to effect the ignition advance. No decrease in ignition advance logged at the spikes of FLKC. Also, the AFR doesn't seem to be much richer than before. Although I did change the maf scale a bit, but the scale was untouched in the CL range of 2.8v and up.

95f ambient temps with MAF temp comp applied (Spikes of FLKC with no change in the ignition timing): http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...&zoom=921-1197

105f ambient before temp compesation was applied (plateaus of FLKC with ignition being dialed back):
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...12&zoom=54-354

This spiking of the FLKC is also present at lower IAT's after the changes were made:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...4&zoom=221-578

The spikes are pretty big, up to -3.7 degrees of FLKC but with no visible effect on the total ignition advance seen in the log. No timing being pulled by the ECU. Strange... very strange..

I will speculate that their is probably some minimum duration the ECU must see the FLKC active for regardless of correction value before its applied as a correction. seems to be shown quite well in those two logs.

You have not got any loose bolts or exhaust hitting on sub-frame which may be causing knock sensor to see false knock due vibration/noise

@Kodename47 what is your view on this ?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by steve99

I will speculate that their is probably some minimum duration the ECU must see the FLKC active for regardless of correction value before its applied as a correction. seems to be shown quite well in those two logs.

You have not got any loose bolts or exhaust hitting on sub-frame which may be causing knock sensor to see false knock due vibration/noise

@Kodename47 what is your view on this ?

I will have to check that. Or maybe go back to the older tune and see if there is the same spiking if the flkc. Looking at the logs over again it seem the flkc did not effect the ignition timing at the moment knock was registered, but the ignition timing advance seems to drop globally after each up shift.

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...1035-1087-1178

In 3rd gear @6500rpm timing was 25.5* BTDC. After upshifting to 4th the ignition advance at 6500rpm drop to 23.5*. In 5th it drop further to 22.5* @6500rpm. Intake temp stayed the same at 102.2*f in all 3 gears at the rpm. That is very much unexpected. No knock correction registered and IAM pinned at 1. There is definitely something else going on.

[Kodename47]

@solidONE those 1st logs look strange, it's almost as if it's logging the wrong parameters. Are those logs straight off the OFT and onto Datazap without touching?


As for the last post, the only thing that's not in the logs that could be an indicator is oil temperatures. That's my only idea.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I will have to check that. Or maybe go back to the older tune and see if there is the same spiking if the flkc. Looking at the logs over again it seem the flkc did not effect the ignition timing at the moment knock was registered, but the ignition timing advance seems to drop globally after each up shift.

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...1035-1087-1178

In 3rd gear @6500rpm timing was 25.5* BTDC. After upshifting to 4th the ignition advance at 6500rpm drop to 23.5*. In 5th it drop further to 22.5* @6500rpm. Intake temp stayed the same at 102.2*f in all 3 gears at the rpm. That is very much unexpected. No knock correction registered and IAM pinned at 1. There is definitely something else going on.

Is the engine load the same when your comparing advance at an rpm as its load dependant. ? you likely under different load in different gears an speeds.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

@solidONE those 1st logs look strange, it's almost as if it's logging the wrong parameters. Are those logs straight off the OFT and onto Datazap without touching?


As for the last post, the only thing that's not in the logs that could be an indicator is oil temperatures. That's my only idea.

@solidONE were those logs taken around when the oft guys did the updates a few days ago may explain those weid values ?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by steve99

@solidONE were those logs taken around when the oft guys did the updates a few days ago may explain those weid values ?

This started to happen after the update. As far as load goes in 3rd and 4th it was at 1.14 at the same rpm and in 5th 1.12, so not much of a difference. While I did not log oil or coolant temps, its hard to imagine that there would be a drastic change in temps between shifting from 3rd gear to 5th gear on the same pull to have the computer dial back 3* of timing at the same spot.

I reflashed an older version before this started to happen and will take logs to see if I see the same thing happening.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

This started to happen after the update. As far as load goes in 3rd and 4th it was at 1.14 at the same rpm and in 5th 1.12, so not much of a difference. While I did not log oil or coolant temps, its hard to imagine that there would be a drastic change in temps between shifting from 3rd gear to 5th gear on the same pull to have the computer dial back 3* of timing at the same spot.

I reflashed an older version before this started to happen and will take logs to see if I see the same thing happening.

I would agree it unlikely to be temp related in such a short period of time, was thinking if log was taken then oft updated when connected to computer may have caused log to read incorrectly but should have only happened once. it is weird, definitly no exhaust rattles ect that could cause false knock.

you do seem to run leaner than the OL FUEL table at higher rpm from what i remember of the standad table for oft tune anyway they dip to 11 where your generally still around mid 12.

[solidONE]

Flashed an older tune I modified before this started to happen and took a log, this time with oil and coolant temps. Still seeing the weird spiking of FLKC and dropping ignition advance after each subsequent upshift. I pretty sure now it is not caused by the changes I made to some of the tables. I might flash the unmolested OTS tune and log again to see if this keeps happening.

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...1546-1599-1689

@steve99 My OL fuel table is leaner than the OTS table. Mine top out at 12.1:1 at the upper range. Also my MAF scale is a bit different than OTS.

@Kodename47 My logs on datazap are always unmolested straight out of the OFT.

[solidONE]

Took a couple of logs back to back within 15min of each other one with my earlier modified 2.06 then the OTS 2.06. I also made sure that the oil temps were brought up past 220*f before taking each of the pulls.

stg1 v2.06 OTS a huge amount of those flkc spikes:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...2186-1201-1253

earlier stg1 v2.06 mod, starts spiking rapidly toward top of 5th gear:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...=993-1048-1145

@Shiv@Openflash any idea what's going on with this? Have you seen something like this before? I've not seen the flkc behave like this on a OTS or modified tune until after the last update and template.

for reference, logs looked like this right before the update.
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...-12&zoom=3-311

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...12&zoom=33-337

[Wayno]

@solidONE

Did you finish adjusting the MAF IAT Compensation table?

Did raising the values in the 100F column richen you AFR @100F?

Ta

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Wayno

@solidONE

Did you finish adjusting the MAF IAT Compensation table?

Did raising the values in the 100F column richen you AFR @100F?

Ta

I was able get the compensation pretty good below 2.8v maf in closed loop before I stopped playing with the compensation table. I stopped playing with it before I was able to make it work as well past voltages above 2.8v in open loop. I'm currently using the unmolested compensation table while keeping the target AFR on the richer end to avoid leaning out in high temps. (aka, I got lazy).