Gen 2 Autocross Classing | Write your letters!

[RT-BRZ]

Originally Posted by Locust

I'm just asking if there is any chance of that happening. Sounds like 0%, good.

Your question may not be as crazy as everyone may think. The SCCA has created an interesting scenario with many of its classes. For example, the Civic Type R got moved from BS to DS and is absolutely destroying everyone there. In the mean time the Civic Si is in GS. It's killing everyone there. Because there really isn't a scenario where the Si can move up to anything because of this, it's basically pushing a ton of cars out of competing in any of the Street classes because they don't have the power to keep up with the Civics as classed.

Another scenario that's apparently coming up is that it's rumored that they are moving the Camaro 1LE to FS from BS. That particular car will run all over pretty much everything in FS.

These kinds of scenarios are not good for the SCCA because it's putting cars that are very expensive and better performing into classes where the traditional cars cost less and, of course, don't perform quite as well.

I know I'll get plenty of detractors that will tell me I'm wrong but I don't think it's a good idea to take classes that are very well subscribed and introduce a car that makes all of the current participants obsolete. If the goal is to attract more members and drivers then this doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[DocWalt]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. I think the movement of the boost buggies to DS was a *huge* mistake, I enjoyed BS greatly in 2017 with my Focus RS. The initial reports that the CTR sucked were all in cold weather and they didn't get any heat in the tires so of course they sucked.

[MacSpeed]

I feel like reguardless of where the new 86 is classed, it will be course dependent vs the current “overdog” in CS and DS

CS: ND is .5” down on wheel. 10-20mm less tire, and 40-50hp less but smaller foot print, and weigh ~500# less. GRZ will be better on power courses and possibly launch better at pros with more tire. plus from what my limited pro experience has been, they seem to favor power cars.

DS: CTR will have 50-60 more HP, 20-30mm more tire 1” wider wheels, but larger footprint, 4-500# more, and a garbage trans. GRZ will be the better transitional car here and will for sure launch better than a CTR at a pro but not sure how they will stack up on index vs HS and STH (assuming DS is still a bump class for 2022 but attendance in 2021 makes it seem like it still will be)

I think I’d almost rather see the car attempted DS for 2022 and go from there.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by MacSpeed

CS: ND [...]. GRZ will [...] possibly launch better at pros with more tire.

I think the difference between ND2 and GRZ launches will be smaller than the room for mistake.
Another factor is that NDs have better weight distribution for the first few feet of launches: 50/50 vs 53/47, higher CoM allows even more weight to be transferred to the rear.

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

higher CoM allows even more weight to be transferred to the rear.

CoM?

[DocWalt]

Center of Mass

FWIW CS NDs definitely launch better than street class twins, though they also struggle from wheelspin or wheelhop if you get it wrong.

[steverife]

I think pretty much anything modern and designed to be sporty launches better than the twins.

[DocWalt]

As a side note, Steve Berrodin consistently had the best launches in his DS twin by revving HIGH and slipping the ever loving crap out of the clutch. The clutch still lasted ~70k miles IIRC and the engine died not long later, lol. Considering a clutch job is easy and not very expensive and it's faster... Seems worth it.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

As a side note, Steve Berrodin consistently had the best launches in his DS twin by revving HIGH and slipping the ever loving crap out of the clutch. The clutch still lasted ~70k miles IIRC and the engine died not long later, lol. Considering a clutch job is easy and not very expensive and it's faster... Seems worth it.

Yeah, I was always paired with him Sat morning in SSC and then a lot of the times, we'd get paired for another session. And he'd always monster me.

He still autocrossing? He blew up at the Finale in '19 and I don't think I've seen him since.

[MacSpeed]

I only have experience launching a twin one event I ran a SSC car and that sucked. It was either bog or tire spin. Figured a twin with more power and 20mm more tire would launch better lol

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by MacSpeed

It was either bog or tire spin.

Aftermarket flywheel?

[MacSpeed]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Aftermarket flywheel?

No, it was a SSC car….

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by MacSpeed

No, it was a SSC car….

Ah sorry I keep forgetting what SSC is.
"Not DS/CS, not STX, must be fancy"

[Breezio]

Originally Posted by MacSpeed

... and will for sure launch better than a CTR at a pro ...

Any personal experience or data to backup that claim?
I find it highly unlikely that a street class twin will beat a street class CTR off the line (60ft) in the dry.