follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-07-2023, 05:06 PM   #43
GrandSport
Senior Member
 
GrandSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 13 Viper; 14 BRZ; 90 Miata; 18 AMG
Location: TX
Posts: 292
Thanks: 65
Thanked 185 Times in 102 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
^^100% agree. Not worth the risk. One of my buddies has binned his BRZ a couple times and just decided to part it out and bought a cheap NB Miata. He races with a team that does Lucky Dog events in a Miata anyway so he figured it would be good to go to that platform.
I came damn close to wrecking my C7GS years ago and almost learned the hard way. There's a reason why the Viper doesn't go on the track. I know a lot of guys with extremely expensive cars that track 200hp cars like ours. They could easily afford to put way more on the track, but there's really no need. They'd rather put down faster laps by improving the driver rather than the car.

There are a lot of multi-millionaires racing spec miata and spec boxter type races for a reason.
__________________
2014 BRZ: Full track car. Gutted, caged, coilovers, AP enduro, OMP, bolt ons, aero, etc,
2013 Viper GTS : Tractive Coilovers, ACR sway bars, aero, carbon, exhaust, etc.
1992 NA Spec Miata: 1.6 + 1999 NB Spec Miata: 1.8 w/ all the goodies.
2018 GLE 63 AMG: +800hp whistling AWD TT V8 grocery getter
2016 GX460: IDK. Too reliable to sell. Too boring to use.
GrandSport is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GrandSport For This Useful Post:
autoracer86 (07-07-2023), NoHaveMSG (07-07-2023)
Old 07-07-2023, 05:24 PM   #44
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,077
Thanks: 18,009
Thanked 16,206 Times in 7,319 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandSport View Post
I came damn close to wrecking my C7GS years ago and almost learned the hard way. There's a reason why the Viper doesn't go on the track. I know a lot of guys with extremely expensive cars that track 200hp cars like ours. They could easily afford to put way more on the track, but there's really no need. They'd rather put down faster laps by improving the driver rather than the car.

There are a lot of multi-millionaires racing spec miata and spec boxter type races for a reason.
I know a few people that stopped going to the track once they upgraded to higher end cars. I was contemplating a Cayman for a long time but just couldn't rationalize paying extra for track insurance for it vs. just driving a cheaper car.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
autoracer86 (07-07-2023)
Old 07-07-2023, 05:30 PM   #45
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 380
Thanks: 328
Thanked 255 Times in 167 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandSport View Post
Most street policies these days have a specific exclusion.

Towing your car to the street and making up a story will probably "work," but man, you're taking some serious risk with committing felony insurance fraud over a net of ~$15k (after deductible, premium hike, etc.).

Consider just getting a cheap track car. You can get an "hpde miata" (gutted, suspension, etc, but far from spec) for $7-10k all day long, and probably a lot less than that. It won't lose any value and will probably save you a lot of money in operating cost. So it's not so much "spending" money as "locking up money." You'll be able to slowly build that. You'll also be able to run true track settings without compromise for the street (or significantly less). Or hell, just buy a shitty old miata, put $2500 into it for cooling, pads and suspension and track it.

Just play within your own financial means. If you don't, this sport can bite you really hard. There will always be someone with more.
Funny how that works lol. Please give us lots and lots of money year over year but don't do anything too risky :P. Live in an area with high risk of floods no flood insurance for you buddy

It's only insurance fraud if you get caught
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2023, 05:33 PM   #46
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 380
Thanks: 328
Thanked 255 Times in 167 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I know a few people that stopped going to the track once they upgraded to higher end cars. I was contemplating a Cayman for a long time but just couldn't rationalize paying extra for track insurance for it vs. just driving a cheaper car.
I hear that ! A cayman was high on my list but was always worried about crashing due to the high price of one in Ireland.... Also zero track day insurance here. Even my normal insurance is useless for basic street driving.

Calling in a claim will ruin your history and more or less blacklist you. Never really felt like that when I lived in the states. But anyway lol
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2023, 05:56 PM   #47
GrandSport
Senior Member
 
GrandSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 13 Viper; 14 BRZ; 90 Miata; 18 AMG
Location: TX
Posts: 292
Thanks: 65
Thanked 185 Times in 102 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I know a few people that stopped going to the track once they upgraded to higher end cars. I was contemplating a Cayman for a long time but just couldn't rationalize paying extra for track insurance for it vs. just driving a cheaper car.
Just. Get. A. Dedicated. Track. Car.

It's a lesson you have to learn the hard away it seems, lol. Everyone wants to track their street car. I felt that way. Once I actually got a track car ($5k Miata), I was kicking myself for swapping pads and wheels before each track day and hoping I could drive to work the next day and rock chips on my beautiful car and compromised alignment settings and blah blah blah. Not to mention, I saved enough in consumables after about 10-15 track days to outright pay for the 86 and all its the consumables.

My buddy is about $60k deep in making his 997 Carrera into a dual purpose car. After breaking his control arm on curbing, finding a ride home and then getting a ride from me back up there a few days later at the next member day, I think he's finally coming around to just getting a damn track car. He's probably depreciated that car enough to buy a miata, let alone the actual cost of parts and consumables.

I didn't even want to track the C7 anymore. My learning curve spiked, it was less stressful, I could drive it harder (both due to lower limits and financial fears) and overall enjoyed tracking it more. Plus my hourly operational cost was much lower.

About a month ago, my McLeod clutch on my 86 decided to blow up and take out my whole transmission along the way. I was annoyed, but I just packed up and went home. Not having a transmission in my street car would have sucked a lot.

Nothing better than sipping coffee on the way to and back home from the track in my SUV, lol.
__________________
2014 BRZ: Full track car. Gutted, caged, coilovers, AP enduro, OMP, bolt ons, aero, etc,
2013 Viper GTS : Tractive Coilovers, ACR sway bars, aero, carbon, exhaust, etc.
1992 NA Spec Miata: 1.6 + 1999 NB Spec Miata: 1.8 w/ all the goodies.
2018 GLE 63 AMG: +800hp whistling AWD TT V8 grocery getter
2016 GX460: IDK. Too reliable to sell. Too boring to use.
GrandSport is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GrandSport For This Useful Post:
Kelse92 (07-11-2023), new2subaru (07-10-2023), RedReplicant (07-10-2023), Ultramaroon (07-11-2023)
Old 07-07-2023, 06:15 PM   #48
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 380
Thanks: 328
Thanked 255 Times in 167 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandSport View Post
Just. Get. A. Dedicated. Track. Car.

It's a lesson you have to learn the hard away it seems, lol. Everyone wants to track their street car. I felt that way. Once I actually got a track car ($5k Miata), I was kicking myself for swapping pads and wheels before each track day and hoping I could drive to work the next day and rock chips on my beautiful car and compromised alignment settings and blah blah blah. Not to mention, I saved enough in consumables after about 10-15 track days to outright pay for the 86 and all its the consumables.

My buddy is about $60k deep in making his 997 Carrera into a dual purpose car. After breaking his control arm on curbing, finding a ride home and then getting a ride from me back up there a few days later at the next member day, I think he's finally coming around to just getting a damn track car. He's probably depreciated that car enough to buy a miata, let alone the actual cost of parts and consumables.

I didn't even want to track the C7 anymore. My learning curve spiked, it was less stressful, I could drive it harder (both due to lower limits and financial fears) and overall enjoyed tracking it more. Plus my hourly operational cost was much lower.

About a month ago, my McLeod clutch on my 86 decided to blow up and take out my whole transmission along the way. I was annoyed, but I just packed up and went home. Not having a transmission in my street car would have sucked a lot.

Nothing better than sipping coffee on the way to and back home from the track in my SUV, lol.
When you say dedicated track car are you saying a car that you're unable to drive on the street ? Or do you simply mean a car that you drive to the track that if crashed/broken will have no ill effect on your day to day life/ getting to work

Because in my 37 years on earth and across two countries I have never been in a position space wise to own a tow vehicle a trailer and a "Race car"
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2023, 06:26 PM   #49
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,077
Thanks: 18,009
Thanked 16,206 Times in 7,319 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandSport View Post
Just. Get. A. Dedicated. Track. Car.
That is where I am at. My car is driveable and registered, but it is not really a street car and I don't use it as one. It gets trailered to where it is going.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2023, 06:30 PM   #50
GrandSport
Senior Member
 
GrandSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 13 Viper; 14 BRZ; 90 Miata; 18 AMG
Location: TX
Posts: 292
Thanks: 65
Thanked 185 Times in 102 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoracer86 View Post
When you say dedicated track car are you saying a car that you're unable to drive on the street ? Or do you simply mean a car that you drive to the track that if crashed/broken will have no ill effect on your day to day life/ getting to work

Because in my 37 years on earth and across two countries I have never been in a position space wise to own a tow vehicle a trailer and a "Race car"
A car whose purpose is to be driven on the track- however you want to get it there. While trailering vs driving is nice, it also requires a trailer, room for it and a vehicle that can tow it- which just isn't practical for a lot of people for a number of reasons.

I live downtown and don't have much space either. I rent a garage at the track for $300/mo. Much cheaper than parking here, with much more room. If I lived in burbs, I'd trailer. Saves insurance cost (on trailer or car that gets driven to the track) as well.
__________________
2014 BRZ: Full track car. Gutted, caged, coilovers, AP enduro, OMP, bolt ons, aero, etc,
2013 Viper GTS : Tractive Coilovers, ACR sway bars, aero, carbon, exhaust, etc.
1992 NA Spec Miata: 1.6 + 1999 NB Spec Miata: 1.8 w/ all the goodies.
2018 GLE 63 AMG: +800hp whistling AWD TT V8 grocery getter
2016 GX460: IDK. Too reliable to sell. Too boring to use.
GrandSport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2023, 06:35 PM   #51
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 380
Thanks: 328
Thanked 255 Times in 167 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandSport View Post
A car whose purpose is to be driven on the track- however you want to get it there. While trailering vs driving is nice, it also requires a trailer, room for it and a vehicle that can tow it- which just isn't practical for a lot of people for a number of reasons.

I live downtown and don't have much space either. I rent a garage at the track for $300/mo. Much cheaper than parking here, with much more room. If I lived in burbs, I'd trailer.
Before I got my gt86 I called my local track hoping to rent a garage no such luck but yeah I totally agree with you makes sense not trying to track your daily lol

Maybe one day I will have a house with a garage along with a truck and trailer
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2023, 07:39 PM   #52
RT-BRZ
FNG
 
RT-BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 224
Thanks: 285
Thanked 141 Times in 85 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
^^100% agree. Not worth the risk. One of my buddies has binned his BRZ a couple times and just decided to part it out and bought a cheap NB Miata. He races with a team that does Lucky Dog events in a Miata anyway so he figured it would be good to go to that platform.
You guys are getting at exactly what I said a year and half ago. Unfortunately I'm too big for the Miatas so I'm stuck with my BRZ being that car. I'll get the insurance and "be careful" but I trailer mine to the track because I understand how things can go wrong even at autocross.

RT-BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2023, 05:09 PM   #53
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandSport View Post
Just. Get. A. Dedicated. Track. Car.
I wish more people understood this.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Kelse92 (07-11-2023), RedReplicant (07-10-2023), RT-BRZ (07-10-2023)
Old 07-10-2023, 05:51 PM   #54
RedReplicant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: None
Location: Arizona
Posts: 880
Thanks: 1,417
Thanked 1,167 Times in 499 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
I wish more people understood this.
To be fair, it is kind of a tipping point where costs start getting ridiculous if you're not willing to deal with discomfort. Though, thinking about it, a non-dedicated car might simply be deferring costs if something happens and you weren't covered so I think you've got a really strong point there.

If you want or need to tow now you need a street vehicle that can tow decently, if you don't want to deal with renting a UHaul trailer every event and doing that whole dance then you're buying a trailer, if you don't have a place to store a trailer at your home you're renting a storage spot, and so on it goes.

If the car ends up deregistered you're also towing the thing for alignments, dyno appointments, etc which is a pain in the ass, especially if you have to keep your trailer at a lot.

Pretty easy to wind up in a spot where you've structured your entire life around this hobby*, for better or for worse.

* hobby => bottomless blackhole for money

edit: On the insurance side of things, I put a $20k caged Miata through a fence four or five years ago. After doing all of the work myself (with the sole exception of repainting the back half of the car) including cutting out both quarter panels, reskinning a door, etc and paying $2k in track damage I was out somewhere in the $6-8k area.

I have a Hagery agreed value policy on my BRZ that covers it in the pits, on the trailer, etc. I also have a full coverage policy on it through another company that I rely on the handful of times a year it gets driven on the street to the dyno or something similar within 5-10 miles of my home. I don't carry track insurance, but I would if I ran somewhere like Lime Rock.
__________________

Last edited by RedReplicant; 07-10-2023 at 06:04 PM.
RedReplicant is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to RedReplicant For This Useful Post:
autoracer86 (07-10-2023), Kelse92 (07-11-2023), NoHaveMSG (07-10-2023), Ohio Enthusiast (07-10-2023), villainous_frx (07-11-2023)
Old 07-10-2023, 06:05 PM   #55
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,077
Thanks: 18,009
Thanked 16,206 Times in 7,319 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I think it is more practical to say "don't track your only vehicle." The vast majority of people I see at track don't have dedicated track cars.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
autoracer86 (07-10-2023), Kelse92 (07-11-2023), Ohio Enthusiast (07-10-2023), RT-BRZ (07-10-2023), spike021 (07-10-2023)
Old 07-10-2023, 07:20 PM   #56
spike021
Senior Member
 
spike021's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: '17 Limited BRZ CWP w/ PP
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,767
Thanks: 14,027
Thanked 6,459 Times in 3,202 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
It's always easy for people with the money to afford more than one car, and many track days at that, incl. relevant maintenance, to say not go to the track with your only car .
__________________
Instagram: @spike.brz
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz View Post
It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
spike021 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insurance and Autocross. Your experience? Mazikowski Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 17 04-15-2016 03:17 PM
Track Insurance - Yes or No? LostSalad AFRICA 2 07-14-2015 01:45 PM
Insurance questions, and share your cursed experience! ducky369 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 52 01-17-2015 12:29 AM
Track Insurance Cypher2 Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 7 05-19-2014 10:35 PM
Little insurance for track days jdzumwalt Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 0 03-21-2013 12:27 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.