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Old 11-30-2021, 01:57 PM   #15
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How do you total a car autocrosing? Stuck throttle?
Always seemed pretty idiot proof to me.
I've seen 3 wrecks this year including 1 car fully totaled. Hell, I stuff my S2K into a wall at an autocross about 10 years ago. Shit happens.
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Old 11-30-2021, 05:42 PM   #16
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I've seen 3 wrecks this year including 1 car fully totaled. Hell, I stuff my S2K into a wall at an autocross about 10 years ago. Shit happens.
I guess it depends on the venue and organisers. The ones I've been to are in fairly large open parking lots and they always make the layout so that any walls, lamp posts, curbs, etc. are well out of the way of the course and likely run off areas.

Some venues there's probably not much you can do about it I guess.
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Old 11-30-2021, 05:43 PM   #17
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How do you total a car autocrosing? Stuck throttle?
Always seemed pretty idiot proof to me.
He spun, slid a long way, dropped off about 8 feet into a creek. Course speeds and distances were well within SCCA requirements.

I've seen an average of a couple of incidents per year.

Years ago, I spun in a slalom at the Dixie Tour and put a car through a fence that I doubt anyone at the event had even thought about. My co-driver once hit a curb in my STS car.

Autocross is relatively safe, but if you plan to do it with any regularity, you should go to Lockton and buy a policy.
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Old 12-01-2021, 10:42 AM   #18
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I guess it depends on the venue and organisers. The ones I've been to are in fairly large open parking lots and they always make the layout so that any walls, lamp posts, curbs, etc. are well out of the way of the course and likely run off areas.

Some venues there's probably not much you can do about it I guess.
Unless you're at an airport there are probably some fixed objects on the lot, and if you are off course then those things that are well out of the way might not be any more. I've been at a couple events on big lots where everything looked fine but someone found a way to either make contact or get really close. Having been off course once or twice myself I'm not going to blame the organizers for something that's my fault. Throw track crosses into the mix and event insurance (which also covers towing and paddock incidents) looks like a pretty good idea.

This isn't to say everyone should be overly concerned, but at the same time if you go to a lot of events (let's say 2 a month or more) the odds start to tilt towards something happening. I'll be getting a policy for next season, it's literally cheap insurance given what a low mileage Hakone is going for right now.
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
How do you total a car autocrosing? Stuck throttle?
Always seemed pretty idiot proof to me.
I've seen it happen before with a concrete base of a light post. You can blame track design, but sometimes the environment you have to work with doesn't give you a lot of possibilities.
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Old 12-02-2021, 06:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
How do you total a car autocrosing? Stuck throttle?
Always seemed pretty idiot proof to me.
Best I can tell for mine, driver may have gotten slightly confused in low vis conditions and a cone upright against the fence. Pushing pretty hard in poor conditions in an unfamiliar car on its first run of the day (so also cold tires), so that was probably the root mistake. It was just below 40 and spitting.
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Old 12-03-2021, 02:56 AM   #21
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It's up to each person. The general rule from our local SCCA racers is that you shouldn't take any car to the track that you wouldn't mind losing.
That statement is more a reflection of the problem with SCCA than it is a reflection of the reality of track days.
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:26 AM   #22
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That statement is more a reflection of the problem with SCCA than it is a reflection of the reality of track days.
I'm not sure I follow. I only mentioned the SCCA because of my affiliation with the local region. The individuals in question aren't SCCA officials, they are just drivers. I'm sure if I asked any of the racers in NASA that I would probably get the same kind of response. These guys drive in door-to-door racing and they all know the kind of things that happen on the track because of the amount of time they spend there. Many of them also instruct at Track Days.

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make other than to start an argument.

As I said, it's up to each person. If someone asks if I feel like it's worth it to have insurance then I say that it is to me. I'm not interested in shelling out 10 to 200 times the cost of the insurance policy just because I *think* nothing should or is going to happen on the track. If they say they disagree with my opinion then that's fine too. See how I started this paragraph.

It's a free country man. You do you.
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Old 12-03-2021, 12:51 PM   #23
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That statement is more a reflection of the problem with SCCA than it is a reflection of the reality of track days.
Also one you're confident won't have issues, and if it does you'll happily cover costs of others you might take out? And any required track repairs.
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Old 12-03-2021, 02:09 PM   #24
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I'm not sure I follow. I only mentioned the SCCA because of my affiliation with the local region. The individuals in question aren't SCCA officials, they are just drivers. I'm sure if I asked any of the racers in NASA that I would probably get the same kind of response. These guys drive in door-to-door racing and they all know the kind of things that happen on the track because of the amount of time they spend there. Many of them also instruct at Track Days.

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make other than to start an argument.

As I said, it's up to each person. If someone asks if I feel like it's worth it to have insurance then I say that it is to me. I'm not interested in shelling out 10 to 200 times the cost of the insurance policy just because I *think* nothing should or is going to happen on the track. If they say they disagree with my opinion then that's fine too. See how I started this paragraph.

It's a free country man. You do you.
You got super defensive there for some reason.

My comment stands. The ideology that "One should be willing to leave their car at the track in a pile of dust, or they shouldn't be on track in the first place" is pile of BS (I'm deliberately using hyperbole). It's definitely BS in trackdays and it's also BS in club racing.

SCCA has a bad reputation in their road racing program for avoidable contact which got MUCH worse this year due the rampant destruction at the runoffs. They also have a ruleset that doesn't properly address or penalize poor on track behavior which perpetuates the problem with avoidable contact so many drivers are perfectly comfortable punting their competition due to zero accountability for it. This is why I said the quote is more indicative of SCCA (specifically as it came from a road racer) and not necessarily applicable to folks doing track days.

So for the folks doing TRACK DAYS - NO, you should NOT go into it with a mindset that if you're not will dispose of your car you shouldn't be there. But you SHOULD accept the fact that you are participating in a high risk activity and should take the proper steps to "hedge your bets" as you see fit. That can be how you drive, the track you choose to drive at, your level of prep and of course.. insurance.

...but you do you.
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Old 12-03-2021, 04:04 PM   #25
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You got super defensive there for some reason.

My comment stands. The ideology that "One should be willing to leave their car at the track in a pile of dust, or they shouldn't be on track in the first place" is pile of BS (I'm deliberately using hyperbole). It's definitely BS in trackdays and it's also BS in club racing.

SCCA has a bad reputation in their road racing program for avoidable contact which got MUCH worse this year due the rampant destruction at the runoffs. They also have a ruleset that doesn't properly address or penalize poor on track behavior which perpetuates the problem with avoidable contact so many drivers are perfectly comfortable punting their competition due to zero accountability for it. This is why I said the quote is more indicative of SCCA (specifically as it came from a road racer) and not necessarily applicable to folks doing track days.

So for the folks doing TRACK DAYS - NO, you should NOT go into it with a mindset that if you're not will dispose of your car you shouldn't be there. But you SHOULD accept the fact that you are participating in a high risk activity and should take the proper steps to "hedge your bets" as you see fit. That can be how you drive, the track you choose to drive at, your level of prep and of course.. insurance.

...but you do you.
I didn't get defensive other than to point out that you seemed to jump on the "SCCA" part of my comment. Should I edit my comment to replace "SCCA" with "experienced drivers I know"?

If you can just drop me your email address I'll be sure and pass all of my comments through you before I make them. It will keep things from coming out the wrong way.
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Old 07-05-2023, 05:06 PM   #26
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A related but sorta separate question: for folks that regularly take a daily driver or otherwise non-dedicated car to the track.. who do you use for normal car insurance?

I recently did my first track day - the Toyota freebie with NASA. I didn't get insurance for the day which was the right move because it would have been a waste. Traffic due to newbies was so heavy it was like driving at public road speeds for the few sessions we got.

Anyhow I was thinking to make doing at least 1 or 2 HPDEs per year a thing and so may do insurance in the future. I called my current provider to make sure they had no issue with me getting track day insurance on top of theirs and was informed driving any car under their policy on a race track in any capacity is prohibited use, and if I did so they will drop me and all of my vehicles all together. Whew!

Calling around I've gotten through about 5 major providers. Everyone says same thing - even though the policy excludes them from track accident liability, they don't want the risk. So no race track at all, or no policy. Hagerty is the only one I've spoken to that is OK with track days on their regular policy. Unfortunately I plan to drive the car 5-8k mi per year which is way too high for them as their "regular" insurance is intended for low-mileage classics.

So does anyone have a regular insurance policy that is OK with going to the track, just no coverage if something happens there? Or is everyone in that boat just winging it?
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Old 07-05-2023, 07:27 PM   #27
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We’re all winging it, more of a don’t ask don’t tell arrangement. I’ll use my AAA to tow me home from an event site but I won’t be filing a claim and risk screwing it up for everybody.
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Old 07-05-2023, 07:43 PM   #28
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A related but sorta separate question: for folks that regularly take a daily driver or otherwise non-dedicated car to the track.. who do you use for normal car insurance?

I recently did my first track day - the Toyota freebie with NASA. I didn't get insurance for the day which was the right move because it would have been a waste. Traffic due to newbies was so heavy it was like driving at public road speeds for the few sessions we got.

Anyhow I was thinking to make doing at least 1 or 2 HPDEs per year a thing and so may do insurance in the future. I called my current provider to make sure they had no issue with me getting track day insurance on top of theirs and was informed driving any car under their policy on a race track in any capacity is prohibited use, and if I did so they will drop me and all of my vehicles all together. Whew!

Calling around I've gotten through about 5 major providers. Everyone says same thing - even though the policy excludes them from track accident liability, they don't want the risk. So no race track at all, or no policy. Hagerty is the only one I've spoken to that is OK with track days on their regular policy. Unfortunately I plan to drive the car 5-8k mi per year which is way too high for them as their "regular" insurance is intended for low-mileage classics.

So does anyone have a regular insurance policy that is OK with going to the track, just no coverage if something happens there? Or is everyone in that boat just winging it?
Carry regular insurance, and specifically buy track insurance for track days, if you want coverage on a track.
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