Moto East / Deatschwerks Drop-in Surge Tank - tech & discussion

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by xkalelx

How did the track day testing go? bump for an update.

We had to make some last minute design changes.

Here's what it looks like now with the FPR. I'm happy with this layout and this is what the production unit will be. Note the neat wiring job. It will plug right into the rear o2 sensor slot (yes it can share wiring with flex fuel kits) for relay power, then the relay gets its power from the battery direct.

We should have pricing ready this week, one of the guys is measuring everything up so we can build the sku list and production cost into it.

https://www.facebook.com/motoeast/vi...3460595701519/

[Xero-Limit]

Ok, we put together the parts list and have our pricing set. It is a bit higher than we initially were hoping for, but this is the only way to keep quality components in the kit. Note that we are also including an FPR with a return style, which will help keep pressure in check and will allow you to have a rising rate vs factory fixed. We are doing a pre-order which is now LIVE! August delivery, when exactly will depend on how many we get. For those of you counting pennies, if you were to put the build list together and buy the parts at Summit, you'd be paying pretty much the cost of our assembled kit and you wouldn't have the mounting bracket.

http://www.moto-east.com/store/moto-...tank-ft86.html

[GSpeed]

Looks like a pretty fair price for what you're getting. We've made similar setups for other platforms that cost around there, or more, depending on how crazy they get.

Nice work!

[enivid]

You guys going to have any install instructions posted soon?

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by enivid

You guys going to have any install instructions posted soon?

Not yet, that will take it a bit of time. But what I can tell you is that it is not much more complicated than the flex fuel kit, just a couple extra lines. Wiring is mostly plug and play and provided. It mounts where the factory battery is located and the FPR to the intake manifold.

[Jonsey]

Now we just need a bundle with the surge tank and flex fuel kit.

[Bramick]

Originally Posted by Jonsey

Now we just need a bundle with the surge tank and flex fuel kit.

Are you flex fuel shopping

[Jonsey]

I use to run E85 until I couldn't get below 7/8 of a tank on track without fuel starving and had to go back to gas. If I am going to make the switch back I prefer to do it in combination with a header, flex fuel and ecutek tunes vs OFT so I have the flexibility to use either.

[Bramick]

Originally Posted by Jonsey

I use to run E85 until I couldn't get below 7/8 of a tank on track without fuel starving and had to go back to gas. If I am going to make the switch back I prefer to do it in combination with a header, flex fuel and ecutek tunes vs OFT so I have the flexibility to use either.

That's my plan too. Flex fuel (Moto-East) is in the box. Header is selected. Planning for a fall install.

[unsurety]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

Also, after a shorai almost burned our miata down to the ground, I wouldn't recommend that battery.

Can you elaborate? I thought Shorai batteries with lithium iron, which is less likely to catch on fire? I understand it's not guaranteed, though I'm also learning about these as I go.

[Reamer]

So what has people's experiences been with this kit? @Bramick @Jonsey ?

[Jonsey]

I will copy in the review I did on the FB track group of my experiences with it and comments from Mike @ Moto-East in reply.


Been waiting to update this post until I had it for several months and a number of track days with it to give an honest assessment. Some of the issues may not be actual issues but are thoughts I have had and hope others can share their thoughts on. Overall- excellent product and highly recommended for serious track folks wanting to run e85.

Let's start with the bad because that is what most of us really care about. First, it didn't come with instructions and while not overly complicated to figure out, it was not super easy for someone working with fuel system components for the first time. It also didn't help that one of the fuel lines had the wrong fitting on it, which made figuring out which line went where a bit more difficult. However, the guys were quick to respond to questions and helped me figure it out in no time.

Second, I needed to do a small amount of trimming on the base to get the tank to sit down all the way in it.

Third, the surge tank is in the engine compartment so it will heat up as the engine compartment does and warm the fuel. My hood is vented so should help this, but it may or may not cause some power loss from warmer fuel. The counter point is you don't have another fuel system component inside the cabin or in the trunk that then forces you to build a shield between the trunk and the passenger cabin to be properly safe.

Fourth, you have a fuel system component sitting right next to the battery. Any fuel leak can be catastrophic so I am not sure if this is truly a higher risk, but I have a fire suppression system installed and have a nozzle pointed right at the surge tank.

Finally, the fuel pump in the surge tank is pretty noisy. Doesn't bother me since this is mainly a track car, but it's certainly noticeable.

On to the good, this product does exactly what it is intended to do and does it very well. I previously couldn't get below 7/8 of a tank on e85 without fuel starving on a couple of high g left handed sweepers, which means I couldn't do a fuel session without issue. I have run the tank down to 1/4 tank now without any issues, which is awesome. Being able to run the car with a header and e85 has made tracking substantially more fun and dropped several seconds off my lap times. Overall, I am very pleased with the product and the purchase and would highly recommend it for people serious about running e85 on the track. This is a very well thought out and well built system.


Comments from Mike:

Thanks for the honest feedback Jason. We really value the feedback for this kind of stuff. The location has compromises for sure, though fortunately they are minor compared to the alternative of having a useless track car on e85 or the cost of the fuel cell. We couldn't make it a full session on e85 before running out of fuel on tight turns with the stock system. The noise is definitely there, not much to be done about that. A battery fire is bad news no matter what, but these batteries (PC680) are much less prone to that then say a lithium battery, another reason we chose that one. The heat plate in between does act like a heat shield to a degree. The trimming needed was likely due to the powdercoat. We'll have to keep an eye on that next time around. But overall I'm glad it is working for you!

[Reamer]

Originally Posted by Jonsey

Finally, the fuel pump in the surge tank is pretty noisy. Doesn't bother me since this is mainly a track car, but it's certainly noticeable.

Ha, I remember hearing the fuel pump prime when it was on the dyno to be tuned at PRT. I had no idea wtf it was.

I appreciate the review though, sounds like the pros outweigh the cons since I'm running flex fuel and it feels useless filling up with 93 just to prevent fuel starvation.

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[DHitHim]

I have dual radium catch can. Will this interfere with the catch can on the battery side?