Case study comparing the Ace header against a popular UEL header with FI

[CSG Mike]

First dyno:
2017 MT (205hp base motor, new red manifold, etc.)
UEL header w/ ceramic
JRSC C38 w/ High Boost Pulley

Graphs:
baseline (stock)
ACN91
E55 (MBT, aka no more power to be made with more ethanol)




Second dyno:
2013 MT
Ace A350 header w/ CSG double ceramic
JRSC C30 w/ standard pulley and High Boost Pulley

Graphs:
baseline (stock)
E85 SBP
E85 HBP







Overlaid (combined) graphs w/ identifiers for comparison.




Conclusions: Smaller supercharger (C30) with less boost (~2psi less), makes more power (+35whp, +25wtq), due to the Ace header. The C30 + standard pulley + Ace header makes more power and more area under the curve than the C38 + high boost pulley + UEL header!

Both cars dyno tuned by Zach Tucker of CSG.


Imagine a C38 + HBP + Ace header...

[weederr33]

No offense, but do we really need another thread reminding us the ACE header makes the most power? Otherwise, that output is very impressive!

[colushi808]

Did you ever compare the different ace headers with boost? Is the 350 the best for boosted? I seen on their website that says the crossfire is for forced induction.

I also can't figure out that different size wheels and gear ratios would affect whp and call for a different header.

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[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by colushi808

Did you ever compare the different ace headers with boost? Is the 350 the best for boosted? I seen on their website that says the crossfire is for forced induction.

I also can't figure out that different size wheels and gear ratios would affect whp and call for a different header.

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Wheel, tires and gear ratios are all hearing. Gearing is how power is delivered, not what makes power

[colushi808]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Wheel, tires and gear ratios are all hearing. Gearing is how power is delivered, not what makes power

Yeah that's why I dont understand ace headers website which recommends the different headers according to wheel size and gear ratios.

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by colushi808

Yeah that's why I dont understand ace headers website which recommends the different headers according to wheel size and gear ratios.

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Im guessing it probably has to do with how long you stay in each gear. Longer gearing, stay in each gear longer, a more broad powerband would be better like the 350/400. Shorter gearing, stay in each gear less, a more peaky powerband would be better like 150/250.

[why?]

Originally Posted by weederr33

No offense, but do we really need another thread reminding us the ACE header makes the most power? Otherwise, that output is very impressive!

What I really want to see is an ACE header vs a Ptuning header, both tuned by Zach. For whatever reason PTuning always is ignored.

[J1Avs]

Originally Posted by why?

What I really want to see is an ACE header vs a Ptuning header, both tuned by Zach. For whatever reason PTuning always is ignored.

Or an ACE Header tuned by Zach and the PTuning header tuned by Toan but on the same dyno/same time -- as CSG uses a Dynojet and PTuning uses a Dyno Dynamics.

I've read that Dyno Dynamics is heart-breaker compared to a Dynojet, so I'd be quite interested to see what my tS with a JRSC C30/PTuning Header/JDL UQFP/E85 setup would do on a Dynojet. For reference, on PTuning's Dyno Dynamics I put down 307whp/230ft-lbs on a 90+degree day.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by why?

What I really want to see is an ACE header vs a Ptuning header, both tuned by Zach. For whatever reason PTuning always is ignored.

I want to see the Nameless header but no one likes it lol. And it's discontinued. Or the HKS header. I don't need no fancy ACE header and sure as hell don't like UEL sounds. But I feel ya!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by why?

What I really want to see is an ACE header vs a Ptuning header, both tuned by Zach. For whatever reason PTuning always is ignored.

We've seen Ptuning and Ace, both tuned by Shawn Church, and the same story as usual. NA, Same peak power, area under the curve is won by Ace, by a mile.

I haven't seen an apple to apples comparison FI yet.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by J1Avs

Or an ACE Header tuned by Zach and the PTuning header tuned by Toan but on the same dyno/same time -- as CSG uses a Dynojet and PTuning uses a Dyno Dynamics.

I've read that Dyno Dynamics is heart-breaker compared to a Dynojet, so I'd be quite interested to see what my tS with a JRSC C30/PTuning Header/JDL UQFP/E85 setup would do on a Dynojet. For reference, on PTuning's Dyno Dynamics I put down 307whp/230ft-lbs on a 90+degree day.

CSG has a Dynapack in-house, and also often uses TRL's Dynojet.

While the dynos themselves can't be directly compared, when you always provide a baseline, you can very much overlay the baseline to get a semi-accurate comparison, as well as compare the % gain, which is what truly matters.

For reference, the TRL Dynojet reads exactly how a Dynojet should read, and is accurate for NASA Dynojet numbers. You can take whp numbers, divide by 0.88, and get accurate crank numbers. A stock FA20 reads ~175whp on this dyno

The CSG Dynapack reads lower, and you can take CSG whp numbers, divide by 0.75, and get accurate crank numbers. A stock FA20 reads ~150whp on this dyno.

[Irace86.2.0]

Rod breaking power is available without the Ace, but thanks for the data.

[86MLR]

I would like to see the ACE vs UEL catless vs OEM Decat (hammer and screwdriver).

Same car, same tuner (hopefully a good one), same dyno, same conditions, same fuel.

All on an NA engine where the pipe length, diameter, velocity, collector design and pulses really mean more in design than a boosted application where blow down is seen.

All by a independent place that doesn't sell aftermarket parts.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert, I just like fluid and thermal dynamics and their part in making power.

I would also like to see some traps and mph for each test.

From my experience there is generally a difference in claims when the tyres are on the blacktop.

Marketing is a magical thing.

[mswbrz]

So many peeps salty bout the Ace being heads above the rest ..... thanks again for the validation of me buying the right header/ tune for my Fi brz


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