Track day insurance questions

[Toyarzee]

So I just got off the phone with Lockton Affinity motorsport, and after some buddies were involved in incidents on track at Buttonwillow over the past couple weekends, I'm much more seriously considering track insurance for this Saturday 4/9/16. However, their website and agent left me with a couple unanswered questions and I wanted to field your guys' input on a few issues:

- first, how many of you actually buy trackday insurance?

- I'm told that Speed Ventures is a qualified organizer and Buttonwillow is an approved track. However, their coverage is for HPDE events and instruction only, and won't cover competitive racing. This is just an open lapping day, but 86 cup is going down on Saturday, so I elected to participate just for fun. I certainly won't be competitive enough to void my track insurance if it rains like it's projected to. Will participation in 86 cup ruin having this added insurance? If so, how would they know I was part of 86 cup?

- when you guys file a claim, is there a lot of investigation and risk of undercoverage or delays in pay out, or is it as straightforward as having enough coverage above their minimum and below their maximum then it's straight up covered

- have any of you had found restrictions in types of replacement parts allowed or total loss replacement after meeting a certain threshold?

I apologize for any duplicate posting. I thought I had asked at least some of these before, but my search only came up with track insurance threads under the Africa subforum...

Thanks!

[mav1178]

I am unfamiliar with the T&C of Lockton.... but as I tell every single person interested in tracking their cars, if you want to track it, be prepared to write off the entire cost of the car out of your pocket.

Don't want to scare anyone, I am just telling it as it is.

-alex

[Toyarzee]

My unfiltered reaction is, there has to be a better way! And while I'm making $400/month payments and have almost $10k left on my loan, I'm not willing to just let go of the car.

While understanding the risks, I also feel the track is still a safer place to push the car than anywhere else. I wish to affirm this "safe place" by electing additional track insurance to avoid serious out of pocket costs or the purported fraud that ensues from those less... prepared.

Do you have experience with any other carrier, or does anyone have any input on Lockton?

[strat61caster]

Call them back and ask if time trials/time attacks are covered. It's a harmless question and should be extremely common given that they approve Speed Ventures and other organizations that facilitate time trials/time attacks. 86 cup is a time trial, you are not wheel to wheel racing the competition, you're logging your laptimes in a closed session like an autocross at the track.

Some consider that racing, such as Toyota, Subaru, and your street insurance generally say that if the event is timed it counts as a race so anything from Auto-X to WRC to F1/NASCAR qualifying is a 'race' to them but Lockton might be more forgiving.

86Cup posts the results, if they were so inclined to investigate it would be pretty easy to just point to your name published online next to your fastest lap ranked against everyone else that was running 86cup that weekend and deny your claim.

Mav is right, if totaling your car at a track event and walking away with nothing but your life and one less car is something you can't handle it's probably not a good idea to go tracking at all. But I don't think that's really the point of the thread, hedging your bets with a few hundred bucks spent on insurance over a few events so you've got enough money to buy a replacement car is a small price to pay to enjoy your weekend at the track. You're right, a well organized track event is 100% safer than the street, but all it takes is for one overly confident driver, sloppy mechanic, or wildlife encounter to take your chances of going home unscathed to zero. Given your description of your situation it sounds like in the worst case scenario you'd end up making payments on your 86 for 2 more years while driving a beater around, for some that's impossible (need reliable transportation for long commute, status symbol for clients, ego) but for others they've already got it factored in the budget (coincidentally a running Miata can be had for a touch under $3k right now).

No experience first or second hand about any insurance company, know some people who popped for the Lockton coverage but nobody who needed a payout.

[Toyarzee]

I called and was told self timing for reference is ok, but competitive timing for comparison to other drivers is a no-go... I'm leaning towards opting out of 86 cup and keeping the coverage instead of canceling the insurance.
@CSG Mike?

[LOLS2K]

Couldn't you run in the 86 Cup without a transponder. In theory you would not be ranked because they don't have a way to clock your time. This way you will still get the experience of running with the other 86s and not void the insurance policy.

[Mr.ac]

Just how competitive is it? Wheel to wheel racing? Passing at any time or point by passing?

But really, if your worried about going to the track, don't go. You'll just be a bother to everyone on the track because you'll be afraid to push it, thus you be the guy slowing down everyone else.

If you still want to go. Maybe skip the 86 cup event and do any other hpde.

[mav1178]

My point is meant to highlight what going to the track means. You need to learn your limits (as a driver and within your car) and make judgments about what risks you want to take.

As for 86 Cup, it's just sharing timing information in common sessions so fastest time of the day is used for results. If you do not want to risk your insurance, don't submit time for results.

-alex

[Toyarzee]

I've already been to the track more than a dozen times and each time I've had the fear lingering, but that was it. I've had 2 friends crash in the past 2 weeks (and neither was their fault) so it's been opening my eyes a bit. Suddenly getting better than a 2:10 on stock power isn't the only concern, but coming out unscathed as well, especially after just getting my car back from the body shop last week from clipping a guard rail in the Los Angeles canyons...

Won't be submitting time and proceeding with track insurance does seem the safest bet, aside from not participating

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Just how competitive is it? Wheel to wheel racing? Passing at any time or point by passing?

But really, if your worried about going to the track, don't go. You'll just be a bother to everyone on the track because you'll be afraid to push it, thus you be the guy slowing down everyone else.

If you still want to go. Maybe skip the 86 cup event and do any other hpde.

Point by passing and open lapping is all

[Mr.ac]

So it's just a timed hpde, kind of. Sounds more to me like that track insurance just wants to cover their ass. Like others said just don't tell you be timed.

[14stu]

I've competed in the same type of event (SCCA Club Trials), and they specifically stated that the club trials (transponders but point-bys and passing zones) were not considered "racing" for insurance purposes (they only considered timed wheel-to-wheel competition or events with open passing and timing to be "racing").

I'd recommend contacting the 86 Cup organizers, they'll know for sure what category the event falls under (they have to have their own insurance for the event).

[EAGLE5]

What the track organizer says, the organizer's insurance says, and your insurance company says is covered may all be different. Only one of those three opinions is worth anything to you. Guess which one?

Best option is to get a car for track days that you can afford to write off 100%.

Second best option is to skip 86 Cup entirely and just run in a normal group while keeping your insurance.

Driving at the track is definitely more dangerous that driving on the street. If people went off the road as often as I see them do at the track, I'd drive a tank.

[ka-t_240]

There are places that will cover cars during timed events; however, you'll be paying about 10x more than normal track insurance. You'll have to determine if the timed event it worth it. You can buy some crazy awesome timing software for your car and use that during HPDE, the moment you get a bunch of novis/intermediate drivers out with the clocks on, bad things start to happen.

Its all up to you, anyone can crash at any time.... It doesn't matter how experienced you are or prepped your car is. Many say its not if, its when. Someone can hit you, you hit someone's debris, etc.

That being said, I have crashed. I did not have lockton/etc, I wrote off a $20k car, and was stupid lucky I walked away. The car probably saved my life.