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Old 10-03-2022, 10:05 PM   #1
Daedex
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2022+ camber thread

Hey all. I kind of wanted to start this thread for a while to gauge what people are running for camber/toe on the new model since we have less body roll, and it would be nice to gather data on what people run for their setups. The only factor we cannot account for is the drivers skill-set, but that aside, it'll assist the community to get a feel of what others are running. I know there are a lot of threads on this already, so I am trying to consolidate, and I'll post what I can find from others in other threads.


if you can follow the format, that would be much appreciated:


Code:
 Car:


 Wheels/tires:


 Springs/shocks/coils:


 Function?/looks?:


 DD/Canyon/Track:


 Driving experience:


 Other suspension mods:


 Camber/Toe:


 (optional) thoughts/opinions:
I'll go first.
Car: 22 BRZ limited

Wheels/tires: TWS T-66f 18x8.5 +42 / Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's 245/35r18

springs/shocks/coils: CSG spen tein flex A's (as DD, I do 8 clicks front, 11 rear)

function?/looks?: function

DD/Canyon/Track: DD, canyon sprints mostly, maybe 2-4 track days

Driving experience: intermediate. Still learning the car. 2 HPDE events

other suspension mods: SPC rLCA's, Subaru STI Flexible V-bar, rear toe arms.

Camber/Toe: -2.0f -1.5r, 0.1 toe inwards in the rear.

(optional) thoughts/opinions: this was my initial setup, and I think I might push it a bit more. Recently I did a trip up the PCH on highway 1 and the 101, and once I got comfortable with the car with no one on the road, I started to gently test a bit, and noticed I am getting oversteer and the back is kicking out first in the corner. admittedly, I do prefer that anyways, and I am loving the car so far. I dont know if i'll push the camber more due to me DD'ing it to work.


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Last edited by Daedex; 10-03-2022 at 10:17 PM. Reason: formatting
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Old 10-03-2022, 10:08 PM   #2
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Old 10-04-2022, 01:31 AM   #3
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Car: 22 GR86 Premium AT

Wheels/tires: Enkei TS-10 17x8 et45 / Hankook R-S4 225/45/17

springs/shocks/coils: 2nd gen CSG Tein Flex A (16 clicks f/r for driving to/from track and typically around 5 clicks front and 4 clicks rear for HPDE)

function?/looks?: function

DD/Canyon/Track: HPDE

Driving experience: ~20 HPDEs

other suspension mods: SPL RLCA

Camber/Toe: -3.2F, -2.5R / 1/16 total front toe-out and 1/16 total rear toe-in.

(optional) thoughts/opinions: I would use the CSG recommended f/r damper settings if i were to drive spiritedly on the streets instead of just to/from the track and random errands just to keep the car moving. The suspension and alignment are really quite nice on track with great turn-in, stable mid-corner, and settles over bumps nicely.

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Old 10-04-2022, 03:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedex View Post
Wheels/tires: TWS T-66f 18x8.5 +42 / Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's 245/35r18

springs/shocks/coils: CSG spen tein flex A's (as DD, I do 8 clicks front, 11 rear)

DD/Canyon/Track: DD, canyon sprints mostly, maybe 2-4 track days

Driving experience: intermediate. Still learning the car. 2 HPDE events

other suspension mods: SPC rLCA's, Subaru STI Flexible V-bar, rear toe arms.

Camber/Toe: -2.0f -1.5r, 0.1 toe inwards in the rear.

(optional) thoughts/opinions: this was my initial setup, and I think I might push it a bit more. Recently I did a trip up the PCH on highway 1 and the 101, and once I got comfortable with the car with no one on the road, I started to gently test a bit, and noticed I am getting oversteer and the back is kicking out first in the corner. admittedly, I do prefer that anyways, and I am loving the car so far. I dont know if i'll push the camber more due to me DD'ing it to work.
8/11 s very much a comfort setting. Add rebound in the back and the rear will get more settled. Try 7/7 in the canyon, and then further adjust to taste. As you already know, clicking all 4 dampers is a very quick process of just popping the hood and/or trunk, and clicking as needed.

7/7 for daily driving will be on the firmer end, but you may find you prefer it when the mood strikes.

The best part is that you can change your setting to suit your mood in under 15 seconds.
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Old 10-04-2022, 04:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
8/11 s very much a comfort setting. Add rebound in the back and the rear will get more settled. Try 7/7 in the canyon, and then further adjust to taste. As you already know, clicking all 4 dampers is a very quick process of just popping the hood and/or trunk, and clicking as needed.

7/7 for daily driving will be on the firmer end, but you may find you prefer it when the mood strikes.

The best part is that you can change your setting to suit your mood in under 15 seconds.
Yeah, I should have clarified, That’s what I use to putter around. On the PCH for the twisties, I did 6 clicks front, 8 rear. Hella nice.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:23 PM   #6
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Car: 22 BRZ Premium

Wheels/tires: Enkei TS-V 17x9 ET45 (10mm spacer up front) / Yokohama Advan A052 245/40R17

Springs/shocks/coils: Shaftworks USA with 6k/9k Swift springs

Function?/Looks?: Function

DD/Canyon/Track: DD, Autocross, Occasional HPDE/TT

Driving experience: Advanced, lots of Solo Nats trophies & ProSolo championship, a few TTs and a bunch of HPDE

Other suspension mods: Karcepts front swaybar, Subaru crash bolts, Moog camber bolts in OEM RLCAs, Whiteline diff & subframe bushings

Camber/Toe: -4.5 Front -2.5 Rear Camber, 0.00 Front 0.30 Rear total toe-in

Thoughts/Opinions: I need -0.2 more camber at both ends of the car, I could use a little bit of front toe-in to keep the inside shoulders of my tires happier for DD.

Rides pretty well, handles great, looks great... when I'm not on my winter/stock setup.


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Old 10-14-2022, 03:44 PM   #7
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I’ve heard toe out helps with camber wear in the front, not in? Seems to help a bit for me at 4.3 degrees.
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Old 10-14-2022, 04:37 PM   #8
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I’ve heard toe out helps with camber wear in the front, not in? Seems to help a bit for me at 4.3 degrees.

I've experienced both. I tried some toe-out and it seemed worse
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Old 10-14-2022, 05:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocWalt View Post
I've experienced both. I tried some toe-out and it seemed worse
How’s the car with those rates? Are you on stock diff?
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Old 10-16-2022, 05:36 AM   #10
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Car: '23 BRZ Premium


Wheels/tires:
On APEX 17x9 +35 / +42 F/R wheels:
Hoosier A7/R7 245/40/17, or Z214 245/40/17

On stock wheels:
RT660 225/45/17


Springs/shocks/coils:
450 #/in (78 N/mm), 550 #/in (96 N/mm) MCS 2WNR
Stock sway bars.


DD/Canyon/Track:
Track (HPDE) use.


Driving experience:
HPDE Advanced, Instructor, etc.

Other suspension mods:
Rear UCAs and toe links.

Camber/Toe:
-4.2 / 0 toe / 6 degrees caster front, -2.5 / 0.15 degrees Toe (in) rear

(optional) thoughts/opinions:
As I'm building this car for HPDE use, tested out these coilovers for the first time at the track, today. With Karcepts' recommended settings (minus their sway bar), the car felt very soft and a bit bouncy. Their settings are 2 / 6 comp/rebound front, and 3 / 7 rear. It felt a lot more stable after +1 rebound and +4 compression all around. I should probably add a bit more rebound, but did not want to mess with it as I was testing out other things as well (e.g. new pad material).

Does the Karcepts sway bar make a significant difference in your experience?

What spring rates do you guys use for HPDE only track duty? The springs I have with recommended settings felt very soft, and I wonder if I should seek stiffer springs, or just compensate with higher compression and rebound; tough to figure it out without knowing much about this platform : )

From yesterday..
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Old 10-17-2022, 02:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco_mc22 View Post
How’s the car with those rates? Are you on stock diff?

Stock diff. Rates seem great. Puts down power way better than I had expected and it's balanced *really* well with 1/4" of rake (rear higher than front) measured hub to fender.


Quote:
Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Car: '23 BRZ Premium


Wheels/tires:
On APEX 17x9 +35 / +42 F/R wheels:
Hoosier A7/R7 245/40/17, or Z214 245/40/17

On stock wheels:
RT660 225/45/17


Springs/shocks/coils:
450 #/in (78 N/mm), 550 #/in (96 N/mm) MCS 2WNR
Stock sway bars.


DD/Canyon/Track:
Track (HPDE) use.


Driving experience:
HPDE Advanced, Instructor, etc.

Other suspension mods:
Rear UCAs and toe links.

Camber/Toe:
-4.2 / 0 toe / 6 degrees caster front, -2.5 / 0.15 degrees Toe (in) rear

(optional) thoughts/opinions:
As I'm building this car for HPDE use, tested out these coilovers for the first time at the track, today. With Karcepts' recommended settings (minus their sway bar), the car felt very soft and a bit bouncy. Their settings are 2 / 6 comp/rebound front, and 3 / 7 rear. It felt a lot more stable after +1 rebound and +4 compression all around. I should probably add a bit more rebound, but did not want to mess with it as I was testing out other things as well (e.g. new pad material).

Does the Karcepts sway bar make a significant difference in your experience?

What spring rates do you guys use for HPDE only track duty? The springs I have with recommended settings felt very soft, and I wonder if I should seek stiffer springs, or just compensate with higher compression and rebound; tough to figure it out without knowing much about this platform : )

From yesterday..
I think you need a little softer front spring (400 lb/in?) and way more front swaybar to fix the softness. If you're not going to be constantly going to different tracks or messing with car setup in changing conditions, the Karcepts bar is overkill. I love the Karcepts bar for autocross because every site is different but if I was building for solely HPDE I'd just do a Perrin 19mm or 22mm (maybe buy both in case you want to swap)


The MCS shock settings seem pretty reasonable from what I know of Karcept's MCS 2WNR valving. I've seen folks run as high as 10 clicks of compression though, so you definitely have room to play with the shocks.
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Old 10-17-2022, 05:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DocWalt View Post
Stock diff. Rates seem great. Puts down power way better than I had expected and it's balanced *really* well with 1/4" of rake (rear higher than front) measured hub to fender.




I think you need a little softer front spring (400 lb/in?) and way more front swaybar to fix the softness. If you're not going to be constantly going to different tracks or messing with car setup in changing conditions, the Karcepts bar is overkill. I love the Karcepts bar for autocross because every site is different but if I was building for solely HPDE I'd just do a Perrin 19mm or 22mm (maybe buy both in case you want to swap)


The MCS shock settings seem pretty reasonable from what I know of Karcept's MCS 2WNR valving. I've seen folks run as high as 10 clicks of compression though, so you definitely have room to play with the shocks.

Perrin's 22mm bar is pretty comparable to what Karcepts suggested for front sway bar stiffness, so I suppose I can just go with that.

What do you think about the rear bar? In other platforms, only (substantially) upgrading one end introduced stability issues on road course track. Per their web site, Perrin seems to recommend 19mm rear bar for a stiff road course setup paired with their 22mm front bar.

I'm not sure why you suggested softer front spring; I've had excellent front bite to be honest, and considering how soft it feels at times, I can't imagine using even softer springs?
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Old 10-17-2022, 05:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Perrin's 22mm bar is pretty comparable to what Karcepts suggested for front sway bar stiffness, so I suppose I can just go with that.

What do you think about the rear bar? In other platforms, only (substantially) upgrading one end introduced stability issues on road course track. Per their web site, Perrin seems to recommend 19mm rear bar for a stiff road course setup paired with their 22mm front bar.

I'm not sure why you suggested softer front spring; I've had excellent front bite to be honest, and considering how soft it feels at times, I can't imagine using even softer springs?

I like stock rear bar or softer and use spring rate instead. Keeps wheels planted better with stock diff.


IME with my 6k/9k spring rates, going higher than 2/2 on the Karcepts swaybar makes the car pretty much a dump truck with my A052s on asphalt or worn in track surfaces. The Falken RT660s make the car even pushier. On concrete or fresh racetrack grade asphalt, I can get away with like 3/3 or *maybe* 3/4 on the swaybar.

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Old 10-23-2022, 07:18 PM   #14
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I picked up a car that already had Karcepts MCS 2WNR w/ 400F/500R springs.

I've finally settled on this for sporty driving:

Front:
7 rebound / 4 compression


Rear:
9 rebound / 4 compression

Camber:
-3.5 F / -2.x R

Karcepts front bar on 2/2

This is with 17x9 Michelin PS4S in 245/40 @ 28psi. I still haven't made it to the track yet, but I doubt I will change it much there. Maybe a tad more rebound.

I really struggled to tame undulations with this setup. High speed shock movements like potholes and bumps are fine. Minor imperfections in the road can cause the car to jitter vertically. Letting a bunch of air out of the tires and bumping up compression helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Car: '23 BRZ Premium


Wheels/tires:
On APEX 17x9 +35 / +42 F/R wheels:
Hoosier A7/R7 245/40/17, or Z214 245/40/17

On stock wheels:
RT660 225/45/17


Springs/shocks/coils:
450 #/in (78 N/mm), 550 #/in (96 N/mm) MCS 2WNR
Stock sway bars.


DD/Canyon/Track:
Track (HPDE) use.


Driving experience:
HPDE Advanced, Instructor, etc.

Other suspension mods:
Rear UCAs and toe links.

Camber/Toe:
-4.2 / 0 toe / 6 degrees caster front, -2.5 / 0.15 degrees Toe (in) rear

(optional) thoughts/opinions:
As I'm building this car for HPDE use, tested out these coilovers for the first time at the track, today. With Karcepts' recommended settings (minus their sway bar), the car felt very soft and a bit bouncy. Their settings are 2 / 6 comp/rebound front, and 3 / 7 rear. It felt a lot more stable after +1 rebound and +4 compression all around. I should probably add a bit more rebound, but did not want to mess with it as I was testing out other things as well (e.g. new pad material).

Does the Karcepts sway bar make a significant difference in your experience?

What spring rates do you guys use for HPDE only track duty? The springs I have with recommended settings felt very soft, and I wonder if I should seek stiffer springs, or just compensate with higher compression and rebound; tough to figure it out without knowing much about this platform : )

From yesterday..

Last edited by Wangspeed; 10-23-2022 at 11:55 PM.
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