Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by Takumi788

Looking for some advice on oil baffling. Anyone use a baffled oil plate or oil pan?

I am NA and will be running slicks this year.

Coming from a SR20DET background I am used to seeing an oil pan full of trap doors. I haven't seen anything but oil plates for the FA20 and they seem gimmicky. Has there been any proof that the plates reduce oil sloshing under high cornering g's? Should I even be concerned?

Thanks in advance.

No problem running on slicks (Hoosier R7's) and aero here. I just try to keep a full my oil full and make sure you have an oil cooler.

[GSpeed]

Originally Posted by Takumi788

Looking for some advice on oil baffling. Anyone use a baffled oil plate or oil pan?

I am NA and will be running slicks this year.

Coming from a SR20DET background I am used to seeing an oil pan full of trap doors. I haven't seen anything but oil plates for the FA20 and they seem gimmicky. Has there been any proof that the plates reduce oil sloshing under high cornering g's? Should I even be concerned?

Thanks in advance.

Due to the way oil flows from the heads to the pan, baffles don't really accomplish much. Under heavy cornering, oil will flow in reverse up those passages. Like others have said, with a stock oil pan and a cooler, you should be fine, even on slicks. I would definitely recommend an oil pressure gauge with an alarm (or program alarms into a dash, if you've got one installed) to keep an eye on things.

Jake

[Bramick]

Originally Posted by GSpeed

Due to the way oil flows from the heads to the pan, baffles don't really accomplish much. Under heavy cornering, oil will flow in reverse up those passages. Like others have said, with a stock oil pan and a cooler, you should be fine, even on slicks. I would definitely recommend an oil pressure gauge with an alarm (or program alarms into a dash, if you've got one installed) to keep an eye on things.

Jake

What's considered low?

[86league]

Hi - Brake question for those in the know...

HPDE this weekend and my brakes developed a moderate pulsation under light to moderate pedal pressure, but very light (or no) pulsation when braking very hard (near threshold).

Swapped the Carbotech XP10's out with the stock pads tonight after I got home and with a quick run, the stock pads seem to have a very very slight pulsation - but you almost have to be trying to feel it...

My first thought was uneven transfer layer - but after a bed-in procedure between sessions, I had the same issue when I went back out. My next thought was a warped rotor (or rotors) - one reason I swapped pads - wanted to get a look at things.

Attached are pics of the rotor right after I took the XP10's out, and the pads - the black areas on the pads are just brake dust - it wipes right off. Does this support a warped rotor?

Otherwise - how do these look - is the dark area at the center of the rotor indicate I'm only getting good contact for that ring vs. the whole rotor surface?

Thanks for the advice...

[GSpeed]

Originally Posted by Bramick

What's considered low?

For oil pressure? For a data system or "smart" gauge I usually program in tiered warnings for less than 5-8 psi/1000 RPM. 15 psi isn't concerning at idle when hot, but if you're seeing 15psi at 6000 RPM, something's wrong.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by 86league

Hi - Brake question for those in the know...

HPDE this weekend and my brakes developed a moderate pulsation under light to moderate pedal pressure, but very light (or no) pulsation when braking very hard (near threshold).

Swapped the Carbotech XP10's out with the stock pads tonight after I got home and with a quick run, the stock pads seem to have a very very slight pulsation - but you almost have to be trying to feel it...

My first thought was uneven transfer layer - but after a bed-in procedure between sessions, I had the same issue when I went back out. My next thought was a warped rotor (or rotors) - one reason I swapped pads - wanted to get a look at things.

Attached are pics of the rotor right after I took the XP10's out, and the pads - the black areas on the pads are just brake dust - it wipes right off. Does this support a warped rotor?

Otherwise - how do these look - is the dark area at the center of the rotor indicate I'm only getting good contact for that ring vs. the whole rotor surface?

Thanks for the advice...

I am also getting pulsing under light-moderate brake pressure since the last time I did brake work. When I say pulsing, like if I am coming to a stop and put moderate pressure on the brake pedal, I can feel the car slow down like I am modulating the brake pressure. It's not a vibration or ABS, just a modulation in stopping power up and down.

I noticed this started when I swapped my rear brake pads from EBC yellow to OEM spares for the winter and took out my BP10 fronts to check them and found they still had enough life left so I just put them back in. I was going to swap them but I had issues getting the pistons to go back in so I let them go.

I am of the impression that warped rotors/uneven brake pad deposits usually result in vibration when braking, not this pulsing brake modulation that I am getting.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

I am also getting pulsing under light-moderate brake pressure since the last time I did brake work. When I say pulsing, like if I am coming to a stop and put moderate pressure on the brake pedal, I can feel the car slow down like I am modulating the brake pressure. It's not a vibration or ABS, just a modulation in stopping power up and down.

I noticed this started when I swapped my rear brake pads from EBC yellow to OEM spares for the winter and took out my BP10 fronts to check them and found they still had enough life left so I just put them back in. I was going to swap them but I had issues getting the pistons to go back in so I let them go.

I am of the impression that warped rotors/uneven brake pad deposits usually result in vibration when braking, not this pulsing brake modulation that I am getting.

Just mentioned this to a friend of mine, upon describing the problem, he suspects that I need to bleed my brake lines. I suspect this is a good idea because I've noticed recently that I also have a fair amount of dead pedal travel.

[strat61caster]

Rotors don't warp anymore, that was a thing like 30+ years ago, but metallurgy and engineering experience is infinitely better than it used to be.

It's likely pad deposits, at least for this car. Maybe ABS related depending on how you brake? You could go get the discs resurfaced, but re-using the same pads will likely have the same results and new blanks are like <$40/ea. A good beating to even out the transfer layer is pretty much your best bet unless you want to replace pads+discs.

Most of us would probably live with it until the pads are gone and replace the discs at the next change.

[86league]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Rotors don't warp anymore, that was a thing like 30+ years ago, but metallurgy and engineering experience is infinitely better than it used to be.

It's likely pad deposits, at least for this car. Maybe ABS related depending on how you brake? You could go get the discs resurfaced, but re-using the same pads will likely have the same results and new blanks are like <$40/ea. A good beating to even out the transfer layer is pretty much your best bet unless you want to replace pads+discs.

Most of us would probably live with it until the pads are gone and replace the discs at the next change.

I try very hard not to get to the point of using ABS - I try to stay just short of that - not saying it hasn't triggered on occasion...

I was and still am skeptical that it's anything to do with warping -- what led me down that path was that for really hard braking they feel very smooth - it's only when you back off on the brake pressure a little that they are uneven/pulse. My thought was that when clamped hard enough the caliper follows the rotor.

My attempts at evening out the transfer layer through 2x attempts have not seemed to cure this... Did 7 stops from ~100 to ~5 at the track bed-in area this weekend - and while they felt smooth during the hard stops, the vibration was back when I went out on track.

Thanks for the thoughts/help...

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 86league

I try very hard not to get to the point of using ABS - I try to stay just short of that - not saying it hasn't triggered on occasion...

I was and still am skeptical that it's anything to do with warping -- what led me down that path was that for really hard braking they feel very smooth - it's only when you back off on the brake pressure a little that they are uneven/pulse. My thought was that when clamped hard enough the caliper follows the rotor.

My attempts at evening out the transfer layer through 2x attempts have not seemed to cure this... Did 7 stops from ~100 to ~5 at the track bed-in area this weekend - and while they felt smooth during the hard stops, the vibration was back when I went out on track.

Thanks for the thoughts/help...

For most track pads, it's not a certain number of stops, it's how hot you get them.

Everytime I've bedded track pads, I do constant 70-5 stops, until the brakes stink and the pedal gets soft.

Let them cool, then never had a problem again.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86league

Hi - Brake question for those in the know...

HPDE this weekend and my brakes developed a moderate pulsation under light to moderate pedal pressure, but very light (or no) pulsation when braking very hard (near threshold).

Swapped the Carbotech XP10's out with the stock pads tonight after I got home and with a quick run, the stock pads seem to have a very very slight pulsation - but you almost have to be trying to feel it...

My first thought was uneven transfer layer - but after a bed-in procedure between sessions, I had the same issue when I went back out. My next thought was a warped rotor (or rotors) - one reason I swapped pads - wanted to get a look at things.

Attached are pics of the rotor right after I took the XP10's out, and the pads - the black areas on the pads are just brake dust - it wipes right off. Does this support a warped rotor?

Otherwise - how do these look - is the dark area at the center of the rotor indicate I'm only getting good contact for that ring vs. the whole rotor surface?

Thanks for the advice...

You're overheating the brake pads. I would recommend stepping up to a XP12 or possibly a XP16.

[DocWalt]

I had the same problem with my XP10s... then my XP12s... Then my XP12s on my AP kit...

and hey guess what, I had the same f'ing problem with XP12s on my Focus RS.

I am no longer a Carbotech fan (they were brilliant on my GTI)... Hopefully G-Loc comes out with some of their own compounds soon, but I'll be using other pads in the future.

[86league]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You're overheating the brake pads. I would recommend stepping up to a XP12 or possibly a XP16.

Thanks Mike. Still lots of questions :

Just so I can recognize it in the future - what is the evidence that shows you pads were overheated? Mike at carbotech didn't mention these looking overheated, but I can't say if he looked at the photos I sent.

Are the pads still useable? Why do I not have the discoloration across the entire face of the rotor vs. the ring more or less centered?

I read somewhere else that longer duration mild braking will overheat things vs. shorter harder braking. The former is probably a better description of how I was braking until more recently -- as I gained confidence I've been shortening my braking zones and braking harder. Is there any reason to believe I won't just have the same problem with the stock setup with new rotors (and pads?) ? I'm still on the stock tires as well - stickier rubber is in my future and will allow me to carry more speed in the corners, but will also let me brake harder ...

Again - thanks for the thoughts...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

I had the same problem with my XP10s... then my XP12s... Then my XP12s on my AP kit...

and hey guess what, I had the same f'ing problem with XP12s on my Focus RS.

I am no longer a Carbotech fan (they were brilliant on my GTI)... Hopefully G-Loc comes out with some of their own compounds soon, but I'll be using other pads in the future.

Sounds to me like you're becoming a faster and faster driver!

My personal preference is for pads with higher bite than XP10/12.

Something tells me G-loc will be releasing new compounds in the upcoming years.