|
Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
07-26-2020, 03:13 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Drives: 2013 FRS Base, Whiteout, 6-Speed
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Differences in driving feel/mechanical issues w/different clutch types?
Okay so first off, if this is the wrong place for this please redirect it appropriately, but I think I'm good.
Here goes... Looking to replace the factory clutch soonish (2013 Base FRS w/67k miles) and I already had to replace the throwout bearing when it seized a few months ago (didn't have money for clutch kit at the time or would have done it then), and I was wondering about the differences between some different types of clutches on the market. 1. While I do not require a twin disc for any power reasons as I am still NA with a full exhause, TRD intake, and an OFT tune, I haven't ever driven a car with a twin disc clutch and am curious if it would affect the driveability at all, or if it would just make a mostly factory FRS less fun to drive. 2. Again, no super power mods, but I do plan to save up and drop some forced induction into it within a few years time (full rebuild with forged goodies and head work happening when that does come around), so would it be worth my while to spring for a beefier clutch NOW or wait and just upgrade it when it's time to do the turbo/supercharger installation? 2a. What would be the differences between running a sprung or unsprung disc in terms of how the clutch operates and how it would make the pedal feel under both normal daily driving and track days? I've only ever replaced "like with like" when I've done any clutch work before and I honestly haven't got a clue on which one would be better for a mostly daily driven car that I plan to AutoX VERY occasionally and maybe throw in a track day here and there. 3. I know that Exedy is a good bet for basically everything, and I've used their products in the past with zero issues, but does anyone have any experiences with the other available brands regarding the change in driving feel (with or without a lightweight flywheel), and whether or not it's recommended to swap out to a lightweight crank pulley when installing a lightened flywheel to keep the weight on the crank more closely balanced instead of having a heavier load on one end or the other? While I won't be pulling the trigger on parts for at least a few months in any case (I'm not rich...gotta save that dough), I do appreciate any and all input that anyone can offer, even if it's "You're an idiot, just get an OEM kit and be done with it" Thanks in advance! |
07-26-2020, 04:20 PM | #2 |
Rust bucket enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 3,215
Thanked 4,105 Times in 2,052 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
This is highly dependent on your goals. The twin disc car I've driven was ruthless. An on/off switch that I couldn't imagine daily driving in.
I had the Exedy stage 1 clutch, it held the 260wtq (330whp) I was making, and it drove like stock with a little better clutch pedal feel. A lot of people buy the ACT clutches, so you'll see good and bad there- I see a lot of Subarus running them that don't have issues after a proper install and break-in. I would leave your perfectly functioning stock crank pulley alone. I have no qualms with a lightweight flywheel, but it requires more delicate clutch control when taking off from a stop, and you'll lose your engine braking. Decide your goals for torque before contemplating your supporting mods- a lot more goes into supporting more than 260wtq "safely" than say 200-200wtq. If your clutch is actually wearing out, I would get the Exedy stage 1 to replace it. It's pretty cheap and will hold decent power. It won't inconvenience you at the least Be prepared before you do your forced induction, but don't stagger your installations; get it all done in one go, so you can troubleshoot issues all at once. |
07-26-2020, 04:46 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2014 GT86
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 4,333
Thanks: 696
Thanked 2,086 Times in 1,436 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
DarkPira7e:sure on engine braking loss? Imho most braking with engine happens with pumping losses (and to less extent friction), and those will stay same and imho make up much more then slight kinetic energy amount stored in flywheel.. which actually with accel off should act as something making car drive longer (or in this case - decel at slower rate..)
|
The Following User Says Thank You to churchx For This Useful Post: | DarkPira7e (07-27-2020) |
07-27-2020, 07:59 PM | #4 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Drives: 2013 FRS Base, Whiteout, 6-Speed
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
As far as my torque goals...I'm not looking to go insane in any case, even if I do end up with lottery level money somehow More just trying to get that extra "oomf" out of it for spirited daily driving and the occasional track day without compromising the dependability of the vehicle any more than is necessary. Thinking maybe a maximum of 300 at the crank but even that would be much farther into the build process. That's like the end goal for power and not the starting point. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Elmacanite For This Useful Post: | DarkPira7e (07-27-2020) |
07-27-2020, 08:02 PM | #5 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Drives: 2013 FRS Base, Whiteout, 6-Speed
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
|
|
07-27-2020, 08:27 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: 2002 VX Commodore SS LS1 Auto
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 500
Thanked 2,185 Times in 1,111 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
If your rev matching and engine braking at the same time your doing it wrong IMO.
You rev match to bring the rpm up to match the gear and road speed, not to engine break, all engine braking is going to do is unsettle the car. Slowing down is what your brakes are for, either that, or all the driver training I did at the track was wrong.... On topic, as stated, match your clutch to your torque, going to heavy will do a few negative things for a street car, cost, drivability, NVH and longevity, heavy clutches like to be treated rough, if you baby/slip them to try and gain some smoothness/drivability you will just cook it quicker, but, if you treat them like they like to be treated, you move the stresses from the clutch to the gearbox, tailshaft diff and axles. Opinions may vary
__________________
Disclaimer: This post represents the official views of the voices in my head at the time of posting.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133311 I'm only here for the biscuits |
The Following User Says Thank You to 86MLR For This Useful Post: | DarkPira7e (07-27-2020) |
07-27-2020, 08:28 PM | #7 | |
Rust bucket enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 3,215
Thanked 4,105 Times in 2,052 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
|
|
07-28-2020, 01:32 AM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Toronto
Posts: 559
Thanks: 198
Thanked 461 Times in 241 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Even if you're engaging the clutch to force the car to slow down (which is so cringe, rev match always) once the clutch is engaged the car will slow down much quicker than a stock flywheel. If the OP is rev matching/heel toeing and using a ton of engine braking day to day, he's going to love a lighter flywheel. |
|
07-28-2020, 05:17 AM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: '15 BRZ RA
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,787
Thanks: 2,417
Thanked 1,944 Times in 1,261 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
I have these ones, but they are on the expensive side. Clutch cover and disk are made by Exedy, but flywheel is originally manufactured by TODA Racing. The lightweight flywheel sold by TRD is also a re-branded flywheel by TODA. https://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/pro...heel/fa20.html https://www.trdparts.jp/english/prod...owertrain.html https://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/pro...lley-fa20.html In older Subaru engines they were saying that you were getting a check engine light if you were changing both (flywheel & crank pulley). The newer engines don't seem to have this problem and I never had a light. |
|
07-28-2020, 07:27 AM | #10 |
Rust bucket enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 3,215
Thanked 4,105 Times in 2,052 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
This is what I'm saying. I personally know a lot of people that do this ( which IS cringe!) and it appears to be common practice, so I was suggesting that this effect will be null.
|
|
|
Tags |
clutch, driveability, flywheel, lightweight pulley, turbo |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
4 drivers, 1 car. Driving style differences? | CSG Mike | Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting | 5 | 02-26-2019 04:12 PM |
Clutch Issues After Driving Through Heavy Rain? | Tero | Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB | 27 | 05-26-2017 11:18 AM |
clutch differences fr-s v Br-z | MyNave | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 15 | 02-10-2017 07:43 PM |
Differences In Types of Headlights/Lighting | Asphalt | Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) | 7 | 02-21-2013 07:49 AM |