VW US recall over emissions test cheating

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by why?

Yes, I know many disagree with my viewpoints. I also know I could be wrong.



the technology vw uses in the USA is totally and completely different than the technology they and many other manufacturers use in Europe..

I will not attempt to address all the points that you made in your mega post. I do agree with some of them and disagree with others.

I will address only the one that was in answer to my post. You are wrong on that one. VW has admitted that there are 11 million vehicles around the world affected by the same issues. They only sold 10.8 million vehicles in total all of last year. They have been cheating since 2009 on all the vehicles they produced with the 2.0L TDI engine. To say that only US cars are affected is totally wrong and they are now under investigation by several European countries as well as China where they are the top selling imported brand. As this story unfolds, many more countries will join. This is a big deal on so many levels that it is almost unfathomable how VW can survive it. But in the world of big business and "deal" making, I am sure a few heads will roll, some big money will change hands and VW will escape with a tarnished image but mostly unscathed in the long run.

[mav1178]

Fun.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ite-amid-probe

[bcj]

[EAGLE5]

After the new smog software is installed, exhaust system reliability and acceleration will likely drop significantly. Possibly fuel economy too. Then governments across the world that have smog regulations will go after VW. Blood in the streets.

Finally, we'll have all the other diesel makers checking their software twice.

[P@ul]

Originally Posted by why?

You are right about some europeans not being able to mod their cars. However the sulfur content in their gas is much lower than our gas, and that means all these modern diesel engines that get insane gas mileage work wonderful over there, but our gas would destroy those systems in short order. I'm 100% for getting better gas mileage, but right now our regulations are the main roadblock.

The "terrorists" at the EPA finalized the "2007 Highway rule" in 2001, requiring 80% ULSD (15 ppm sulfur) supply compliance for on-road fuel by 2006. 100% compliance was required by 2010. This was a magnitude reduction from the previous "low sulfur" diesel standard at 500 ppm.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/highway-diesel/

The "terrorists" at CARB required that ULSD launch at 100% in California, which occurred in June of 2006 and applied to on road and off road vehicles.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline..._gasoline.html

The "terrorists" at the EPA required 100% ULSD use in off-road, locomotive, and marine engines by 2014. So that's pretty much it, full national compliance at 15 ppm in 2014.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/dieselfuels/index.htm

The "terrorists" at CARB required locomotive and marine engine compliance in 2007.

http://www.clean-diesel.org/nonroad.html

Euro IV diesel started at 50 ppm in 2005. Euro V diesel started at 10 ppm in 2009. Are you concerned about 15 versus 10 ppm?

[Special_K]

Originally Posted by P@ul

The "terrorists" at the EPA finalized the "2007 Highway rule" in 2001, requiring 80% ULSD (15 ppm sulfur) supply compliance for on-road fuel by 2006. 100% compliance was required by 2010. This was a magnitude reduction from the previous "low sulfur" diesel standard at 500 ppm.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/highway-diesel/

The "terrorists" at CARB required that ULSD launch at 100% in California, which occurred in June of 2006 and applied to on road and off road vehicles.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline..._gasoline.html

The "terrorists" at the EPA required 100% ULSD use in off-road, locomotive, and marine engines by 2014. So that's pretty much it, full national compliance at 15 ppm in 2014.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/dieselfuels/index.htm

The "terrorists" at CARB required locomotive and marine engine compliance in 2007.

http://www.clean-diesel.org/nonroad.html

Euro IV diesel started at 50 ppm in 2005. Euro V diesel started at 10 ppm in 2009. Are you concerned about 15 versus 10 ppm?

HERETIC! Get out of here with your facts and research as we will not tolerate either here! This is a place opinions and irrational conclusions dammit!!!

[stugray]

Here is probably one of the best arguments FOR taking Global Warming and pollution seriously:

Because the POPE says so!

That might sound stupid, AND I am about as far from Catholic as one can get.
However, to become the Pope you actually DO have to be one of the smartest men in the world.
That is NOT something I would say about ANY politician.
The Pope has hundreds of REAL scientists that report to him.
And Last but not least: WHO IN THE HELL WOULD LIE TO THE POPE?

So even being about as anti-religious as one can get, I still respect his opinion over all the politicians on this matter.

To me the topic is about as clear cut as: Should you just throw your trash in the river when you are camping? I mean in just 30 seconds you wont have to look at the trash or think about it any more, what's the difference, right?
We have a moral obligation to leave the planet at least as clean as we found it (each generation) and we are doing a piss-poor job of that right now.
I personally make sure to leave my campsites cleaner than when I found it (and sadly that is possible most of the time).

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by stugray

I personally make sure to leave my campsites cleaner than when I found it (and sadly that is possible most of the time).

The wife and I were on a one day guided horse back ride in Kashmir. We stopped for lunch and after we finished eating the 2 guides were just going to leave the plastic plates and disposable containers behind. I picked the rubbish up and got a weird look from the guide. I had noticed similar litter every now and then in the valley. I am suggesting that littering wasn't a concept that the guides were familiar with. That is, just leaving one's rubbish was the norm. Now multiply that by a couple of billion people and there is an issue.

"Lung cancer is the most common cancer in China."
"Cancer is now the leading cause of death in China."
http://grist.org/pollution/2011-05-2...eath-in-china/





I have read that the Chinese government is increasing its environmental awareness but I think that economic well being still takes priority and I think at this present time that is still true of governments and people world wide.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by IBill4You

over sound economic principles.

I am not sure there are sound economic principles. Or maybe the principles don't make it through to the world unscathed.
Of course I am not qualified to say but internet
1/ The economy is chaotic (in a sensitive dependence on initial conditions way)
2/ People are not predictable.
3/ People are not rational.
4/ I love this quote from Greenspan:
"You know, that's precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well."
5/ Economic models are just that; models. They don't accurately measure the way the world works. See 1.
6/ I find it interesting that different economists will give different forecasts.

[EAGLE5]

Something in the water? Every damned thread is running off topic.

Vw is fucked.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Something in the water? Every damned thread is running off topic.

Vw is fucked.

Actually, in light of the potential effects of the VW system bypass the whole enviro debate is completely on topic. Imagine if all the makers did that?

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Imagine if all the makers did that?

I bet the CEO of every automaker has called his VP of engineering and asked him to find out if they have any similar skeletons in their closets.

[WolfpackS2k]

VW should be punished harshly for this, and one way or another, I believe they will. Pumping more NOx into the atmosphere is not cool, even if in the grand scheme of crimes against nature it's a drop in the bucket compared to things like radioactive pollution (mostly in the former USSR) and deforestation in Indonesia and S. America.

Global warming / climate change is a real thing, but alarmist global warming is laughable.

Additional CO2 in the atmosphere causes warming; this is fact. However, the relationship between CO2 and warming of the atmosphere is a logarithmic relationship. Which means that each additional molecule of CO2 released into the atmosphere has less of an impact than the molecule before it, and so on. By itself, scientists estimate that CO2 added to the air from man-made sources will raise the average temperature of the Earth by 2°C. And that's it.

What has some people worried are the possibility of positive feedback loops that will raise the Earth's temperature by more than that. This is mostly theoretical and there is no concrete proof of these mechanisms existing. Almost all computer climate models are built around positive feedback systems, and this is why to date all the computer models have been horribly wrong, over and over. Most of the earth's climate systems are still not fully understood.

It's worth noting that the UN's IPCC wasn't founded to prove AGW. Rather it was founded to study the impacts of AGW. It's also worth noting that the IPCC's reports that come out every few years have been backing off of alarmists claims, each time less and less certainty. It's also worth noting that the IPCC's Summary for Policy Makers (summary of their reports) are highly political and the media usually gets their info from this, not bothering to actually dig into the reports themselves.

Regardless of whether AGW is real or not (I believe it is to a degree - and I definitely don't buy into the alarmist hype) long term sustainable energy solutions are important, and vital, to the continuation and advancement of the human race. Unfortunately, solar and wind power will never, I repeat, NEVER be able to support our energy needs.

The only path forward is the development of nuclear fusion technology. There's literally no other option.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Actually, in light of the potential effects of the VW system bypass the whole enviro debate is completely on topic. Imagine if all the makers did that?

Originally Posted by jvincent

I bet the CEO of every automaker has called his VP of engineering and asked him to find out if they have any similar skeletons in their closets.

The same organization that uncovered the VW issue also found that European sold diesel engines from Volvo, Renault and Hyundai also exceeded their advertised emissions by significant amounts. Apparently, there is a chance that all these manufacturers that have been promoting clean diesel have been falsifying. Investigations continue on that front. In addition, the VW scandal is sucking in Audi and Porsche. The A3 is already listed as an offending vehicle and test are being conducted on the V6 diesels used in Audis and the Porsche SUV.

CEO Martin Winterkorn is already gone as the first "heads will roll" victim.

This may be the "tip of the iceberg"!