GReddy X KW

[jamal]

That's funny, when I first said 5k / 7k that is what was on the greddy site for the BRZ application. Now it is changed to 6k / 7k. Or I maybe i misread it, but I could have sworn it said 5/7 a few days ago..

And we have a picture of rear springs marked "50" which implies 50 n/mm and another picture with 60n/mm front springs and an unknown rear.

So I guess it is a mystery and we are all just guessing based on marketing material.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Joe-G

Not sure if that's right... but where did you find that photo?

I've been trying to decide on a new set of coils, and this seems to fit the bill. I like the softer front springs, and KW has a good reputation. I'm fairly sold on these, other than the claim that its not a 6k/7k setup... Are you sure your source is right?

I have this photo from the huge 20000 member FRS Facebook fan group. The poster didn't mention anything about the spring rates, he just posted pictures of his new install and was happy.

However, I noticed in this one picture that there is "50-200" printed on the rear spring. According to normal "KW convention" that would mean 50 N/mm and 200 mm long. The same "50-200" is printed on my ST XTA and is specifically mentioned in the German TÜV certification. The print on the spring needs to correspond to the document for road legality.

So there is no other source that this picture and comparison to XTA and other KW products. You need to check with Greedy for the facts and be sure to get hold of a competent employee and not someone who will just read to you what's at their website.

[Joe-G]

Originally Posted by Tor

I have this photo from the huge 20000 member FRS Facebook fan group. The poster didn't mention anything about the spring rates, he just posted pictures of his new install and was happy.

However, I noticed in this one picture that there is "50-200" printed on the rear spring. According to normal "KW convention" that would mean 50 N/mm and 200 mm long. The same "50-200" is printed on my ST XTA and is specifically mentioned in the German TÜV certification. The print on the spring needs to correspond to the document for road legality.

So there is no other source that this picture and comparison to XTA and other KW products. You need to check with Greedy for the facts and be sure to get hold of a competent employee and not someone who will just read to you what's at their website.

Might just have to be a guinea pig and order... complain afterwards if its wrong ...

[mav1178]

I'm going to order one and let you guys know what it says.

[Joe-G]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I'm going to order one and let you guys know what it says.

Cool! Keep us posted!

[jamal]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I'm going to order one and let you guys know what it says.

Might I suggest RCEs? The T0 or T2, or their new bilstein based setup if you can wait a bit. It is all very similar, but you don't see greddy on here explaining what the spring rates are and why they picked them and what they changed over the standard kw/st like RCE. They actually, like, post here and try to help people instead of just slapping their sticker on something.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by jamal

Getting off topic, but, more spring instead of a bigger bar tends to give better rear suspension independence and better traction when things aren't nice and smooth, plus you have to compromise with the damping. If your shock is set to control the springs plus a big swaybar while cornering it is going to be overdamped in a straight line.

This.
I had Eibach sways f&r with 6k/6k springs. I could feel the cross talk when hitting a bump on one side. I have since removed the sways. Yeah, there is a little more roll but I much prefer having independent suspension.

Because compromise.

[ryoma]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

This.
I had Eibach sways f&r with 6k/6k springs. I could feel the cross talk when hitting a bump on one side. I have since removed the sways. Yeah, there is a little more roll but I much prefer having independent suspension.

Because compromise.

in the MR2 community there was this national autocross champion (or something along those lines) that advocates for removing swaybars completely and upping the spring rates. the topics always led to a long debate though so in the end it really depends on the person's specific driving style IMO

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by jamal

Might I suggest RCEs? The T0 or T2, or their new bilstein based setup if you can wait a bit. It is all very similar, but you don't see greddy on here explaining what the spring rates are and why they picked them and what they changed over the standard kw/st like RCE. They actually, like, post here and try to help people instead of just slapping their sticker on something.

I'm ordering one to stock and sell, not to use on my car.

I don't have a personal BRZ anymore.

-alex

[jamal]

It does really depend on the car, the driver, the tires, and the use. RWD with higher power/weight will tend toward smaller rear bars. FWD and AWD usually bigger. I have seen rear bars removed completely on a few things including a really fast time attack car, although that was only temporary for a not-pro driver. On a Subaru STI we actually fabricated a bigger swaybar because the 27mm whiteline wasn't enough.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by jamal

... but on a rwd car I would rather have the smallest rear bar possible, which will usually improve grip on corner exit.

Originally Posted by Tor

If that is your goal, why not the lower spring rate in the rear? That increases the exit grip too. The mid corner understeer can corrected by trailbraking more and being less aggressive on the throttle mid corner. If laptime is the goal, I actually think that might faster, because you can push harder with less risk. Personally I find the rear swaybar set to hard more entertaining which is my primary goal above laptimes.

Originally Posted by jamal

Getting off topic, but, more spring instead of a bigger bar tends to give better rear suspension independence and better traction when things aren't nice and smooth, plus you have to compromise with the damping...

Correcting a misunderstanding.

If your goal is to improve grip on corner exit, go with the lower spring rate in the rear without changing the swaybar.

I drove the car like that with the 6/5 XTA for quite a long time, including several track days, before deciding to set the rear swaybar to hard.

Yes, the car will push if going to early on the throttle mid corner. But if you trail brake into the corner and hold of the gas for a second you can floor it going out of the corner.

I think this is not a bad setup if lap times is your goal, but it requires patience and driving with delicate inputs.

Personally, I found that challenging and interesting to adjust my driving to the car, but in the end I found it more fun to feel the car rotate a bit more when going on the pedal.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I had Eibach sways f&r with 6k/6k springs. I could feel the cross talk when hitting a bump on one side. I have since removed the sways. Yeah, there is a little more roll but I much prefer having independent suspension.

Because compromise.

Didn't you have the AST without swaybars?

What I didn't like with the 6/5 and both swaybars set to soft was that there was a disconnected feeling front to rear. Kind of hard to explain, but it felt like the car was squatting on the outside rear and like the rear axle rolled more twisting the car. Kind of like the outside rear was driving in a groove deeper than the rest of the car.

With the rear set to hard, it feels like front and rear axles have the same amount of roll.

Yes, there are a lot of things to consider regarding compromises.

The 6/5 rates are not bad and can be tweaked to suit your needs. Before getting the XTAs, I was warned they would push like a pig. That is not the case (even with both sways set to soft). It pushes mid-corner when going too early on the throttle and that's about it. Pretty safe for a novice like myself and probably quite fast in the hands of the more advanced driver.

I am just clarifying all this because I don't think the 6/5 rates should deter anyone from buying these or the XTA coilovers. They are great value for the price.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Tor

Didn't you have the AST without swaybars?

Yep!
The ASTs were 9k/10k. Sold them, went back to the 6k/6k dampers without sways.

Originally Posted by Tor

Yes, there are a lot of things to consider regarding compromises.

Gospel.

[Joe-G]

Just placed an order with @Kami Speed. Will keep you guys posted as well.

[mav1178]

So they came in...

Fronts: 60-170
Rears: 50-200

I'm going to ask one of the guys to throw it on the shock dyno this week or next.

-alex