The U.S. Government is trying to get rid of our racecars!

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Has anyone else had the idea that this might be trying to target the "Rollin' Coal" douche crowd?

Actually, that was my first thought. Some Prius ninny in Cal probably got coal rolled and whined.

However, whatever their reasons, you should always be careful what new regulations are proposed and put into action. Again, a runaway Supreme Court does not help in this matter.

A "recreational" vehicle could easily be found to also define, lets say, sports cars and coupes in the future. Or hell, any car that's been modified for sport use and still holds a road car registration. End result: CARB for every state now, mandated by the Federal Government. That might not be their intention with this regulation, but its not beyond reasoning that it COULD happen.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Actually, that was my first thought. Some Prius ninny in Cal probably got coal rolled and whined.

However, whatever their reasons, you should always be careful what new regulations are proposed and put into action. Again, a runaway Supreme Court does not help in this matter.

A "recreational" vehicle could easily be found to also define, lets say, sports cars and coupes in the future. Or hell, any car that's been modified for sport use and still holds a road car registration. End result: CARB for every state now, mandated by the Federal Government. That might not be their intention with this regulation, but its not beyond reasoning that it COULD happen.

Yeah, except for the most part, most cars are CARB certified when they come to the US--easier to just build to the strictest standards as opposed to tailoring to each state. I could be wrong, however.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Yeah, except for the most part, most cars are CARB certified when they come to the US--easier to just build to the strictest standards as opposed to tailoring to each state. I could be wrong, however.

They are 50 state emission certified, yes. I'm speaking of car modification and passing CARB. Right now, in TN, there's no laws and enforcement barring engine swaps in whatever fashion you chose, as long as it passes a simple emissions test, IF your county has them. Not just swaps either. Simple modifications like cat-backs, which can make you fail CARB.

[Decay107]

”Those who sacrifice liberty for imperceptibly cleaner air deserve neither.”

-Ben Franklin, SEMA 2015

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Decay107

”Those who sacrifice liberty for imperceptibly cleaner air deserve neither.”

-Ben Franklin, SEMA 2015

lol imperceptible

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lol imperceptible

That shit ain't from racecars.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

That shit ain't from racecars.

EXACTLY! It's from road cars and manufacturing facilities with insufficient emissions controls which is the point of the legislation we're discussing.

I'd happily bet that the spirit of the exemption remains unchanged in practice even if the bill passes as is. Especially given the shitstorm sema stirred up.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

That shit ain't from racecars.

It's not.

It was cleaned up after the Clean Air Act was put in place, and California put in place a more stringent version of the CAA.

-alex

[johan]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lol imperceptible

Originally Posted by strat61caster

EXACTLY! It's from road cars and manufacturing facilities with insufficient emissions controls which is the point of the legislation we're discussing.

I'd happily bet that the spirit of the exemption remains unchanged in practice even if the bill passes as is. Especially given the shitstorm sema stirred up.

No one is arguing the validity / usefulness of the CAA - or what it might have accomplished since its inception. Short sighted posts like this (even in jest) are just as dangerous as the "don't touch our race cars yo" posts that people send to the EPA.

Doug's post was on point. Policing road cars that are converted to race cars with emissions mods will surely have an imperceptible impact on air quality.

And given that this very same document that you're saying will "likely not impact the spirit of the exemption" explicitly states that "We may assess a civil penalty up to $37,500 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation." - I would take nothing for granted.

Why not stand up for your civil liberties?

[Ultramaroon]

^^^This^^^ I was hung up on making sure I was accurately interpreting the proposal and chickened out last night.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by johan

No one is arguing the validity / usefulness of the CAA - or what it might have accomplished since its inception. Short sighted posts like this (even in jest) are just as dangerous as the "don't touch our race cars yo" posts that people send to the EPA.

Doug's post was on point. Policing road cars that are converted to race cars with emissions mods will surely have an imperceptible impact on air quality.

And given that this very same document that you're saying will "likely not impact the spirit of the exemption" explicitly states that "We may assess a civil penalty up to $37,500 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation." - I would take nothing for granted.

Why not stand up for your civil liberties?

I agree, policing racecars will have a minimal impact on air quality vs. all the other low hanging fruit available (as evidenced by my earlier response to @Ultramaroon ). I got my "EPA BANNING RACECARS" threads mixed, I thought this was the other one where there were a few posts that basically boiled down to 'commiefornia restrictin' my freedum!' and 'emissions laws are stupid'.

You're right, I misinterpreted Mr. Decay Doug's post.

As for the fine, if you read the words around it, that fine is explicitly for off-road or non-certified vehicles being operated on public roads. This was always illegal and the google results I found show that California Highway Patrol and Federal fines (such as the organizations running national parks) are up to $5k, Wisconsin is $2k, Michigan is $1k, and etc. for operating non-road legal vehicles on the road. The penalty is stiffer than it needs to be, but this is not a change to the spirit of the law and has little to do with the language everyone is up in arms about which is currently being interpreted as "road certified vehicles can never tamper with emissions equipment even after conversion to off-road use".

[johan]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

^^^This^^^ I was hung up on making sure I was accurately interpreting the proposal and chickened out last night.

Yeah it is a very long document and a lot of it has nothing to do with road cars. It's not a wholly unreasonable proposal, but the implications of specific parts are very damning for communities like ours. The more of the proposal I read, the more convinced I am that we need to demand that they edit it.

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

EXACTLY! It's from road cars and manufacturing facilities with insufficient emissions controls which is the point of the legislation we're discussing.

I'd happily bet that the spirit of the exemption remains unchanged in practice even if the bill passes as is. Especially given the shitstorm sema stirred up.

Given the choice, I'd rather not have to argue that I'm adhering to the "spirit of the exemption" that argument usually doesn't do too well in court. As it stands, we enthusiasts would have absolutely no recourse if one day the EPA decided to change it's interpretation and start clamping down hard on all formerly emissions compliant vehicles.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Decay107

Given the choice, I'd rather not have to argue that I'm adhering to the "spirit of the exemption" that argument usually doesn't do too well in court. As it stands, we enthusiasts would have absolutely no recourse if one day the EPA decided to change it's interpretation and start clamping down hard on all formerly emissions compliant vehicles.

The act does not apply retroactively and is set to go in effect in 2018, I believe if you pulled your car off the road and followed the laws as it exists today you could continue to race your spec Miata or autocross your SM car without repurcussion for many years.

I agree it needs clarification and if the current worst case interpretations are confirmed I'll march with you pitchfork and torch in hand.