(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Tcoat]

Let's talk about "platforms" and "architecture" for a bit since there seem to be some misconceptions in what the terms mean.

A vehicle "platform" is not a fixed size or shape chassis that they make the parts fit around. The terms are used in a more abstract way than an actual physical structure. Think of it more a a standard set of lego that you can use the same parts but make larger or smaller final versions of by using more or less of the available pieces. It uses the same design and basic set up but can be rather different from one vehicle to another. The 17+ compact car Impreza and the huge bloody Ascent are built on the same "platform" but the actual structure is very different for each vehicle. The same applies for Toyota and their "architecture".

Subaru has been very clear that they have gone with a platform that can accommodate their current and future line up for possible Kei/sub compact cars to full sized SUVs. They have also stated they can use the same platform for hybrid and EVs.

So... If both manufactures can use the same platform for any and all models why do people all of a sudden think that they can't use one or the other "because the engine won't fit between the frame rails" or "Subaru's new platform can't handle RWD"? They literally can adjust those platforms for anything.

If they decided to go with the Toyota architecture it would be more for economy of scale cost reasons not because parts won't fit in the Subaru one.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

I mean why not?

Because they would have left Subaru out of the equation and built that car 7 years ago.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

RWD and manual please

Well according to the internet the sales numbers are so horrible they will have to appease the public to get up to Corolla quantities so CVT and FWD it is. Will also have a hatch, sunroof, 46 way power seats, run on regular gas, have 22 cup holders, a 19" infotainment unit and a fully customized set of stick figure family stickers for the rear window.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well according to the internet the sales numbers are so horrible they will have to appease the public to get up to Corolla quantities so CVT and FWD it is. Will also have a hatch, sunroof, 46 way power seats, run on regular gas, have 22 cup holders, a 19" infotainment unit and a fully customized set of stick figure family stickers for the rear window.

Yearly sales of the 86 here have concintantly surpassed any Supra, Celica or MR2 of years past.

Apart from that solid data everything else is speculation and dreams of rainbows and lollipops.

In the end I don't really care, my preference is a sports coupe with RWD and manual, worse case senario is I keep my current 86, or if/when I kill it, I pick up something else .

Meh, maybe I'll buy another R31 boat, if I can afford it, the price for these things are skyrocketing.

Throw in a boosted Barra and away you go...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Yearly sales of the 86 here have concintantly surpassed any Supra, Celica or MR2 of years past.

I will never understand how this simple fact escapes people.
Do people really want to see as many of these on the roads as a Corollas, Imprezas or bloody Civics?
Also always funny that the many of the ones complaining about low sales numbers are also the ones screaming to " I only buy used cars and let somebody else deal with deprecation".

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I will never understand how this simple fact escapes people.
Do people really want to see as many of these on the roads as a Corollas, Imprezas or bloody Civics?
Also always funny that the many of the ones complaining about low sales numbers are also the ones screaming to " I only buy used cars and let somebody else deal with deprecation".

I believe alot people are stupid gullible sheep who will complain about everything but do nothing about it.

I also believe that most have no concept of the real world, IRT government rules, regulations and emmisions targets.

People are also typically self entitled, the "I just want it" mantra is strong, and their delusions are much stronger than their bank accounts.

As for the used car buyers, no one cares about what they want, Toyota and Subaru only think about what will get me in to a yard and buy their latest model.

This is why I love all car forums, 10% of real usefull information, and 90% LOLS.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well according to the internet the sales numbers are so horrible they will have to appease the public to get up to Corolla quantities so CVT and FWD it is. Will also have a hatch, sunroof, 46 way power seats, run on regular gas, have 22 cup holders, a 19" infotainment unit and a fully customized set of stick figure family stickers for the rear window.

One way to get rid of stick figure families , can’t say I’m a fan but someone’s made good money off of those stick figure family stickers unfortunately.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Yearly sales of the 86 here have concintantly surpassed any Supra, Celica or MR2 of years past.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I will never understand how this simple fact escapes people.
Do people really want to see as many of these on the roads as a Corollas, Imprezas or bloody Civics?
Also always funny that the many of the ones complaining about low sales numbers are also the ones screaming to " I only buy used cars and let somebody else deal with deprecation".

To lazy to search the data but I assume it’d be around the MX-5/Miata sales and that is deemed a sports car success and rightly so. So the 86/BRZ has achieved its goal, if sales had of completely tanked they wouldn’t be doing a 2nd gen.

[J1Avs]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Fun they all want the 2.4 when is is sort of confirmed (we don't really know much about it) that they are using a new 1.8 in the Levorg.
It is not at all probable they would put a 2.4 turboed engine in the 86/BRZ while using a new 1.8 in the other performance models.
If they do go against everything they have ever said and use a turbo then it would be a more likely candidate.

The biggest surprise is that all the clickbaits that said the had "confirmed insider info" that the 2.4 would be used haven't changed their story and pretended they never said it.

From a purely hypothetical perspective, this 1.8T would make sense if they go turbo. It likely can put out different power numbers, such as in the Levorg and Levorg STI Sport, so figure the next gen twin gets a detuned version of 1.8T in order to keep it out of the power figures of the 4 and 6 Supras.

Given they are introducing the 4 cylinder Supra into the Euro market where the twins also live....it seemingly only makes sense that the power figures would be lower in order to maintain some type of vehicle heirarchy.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a 205-225hp 1.8T.

Is it drastically more power, no. But it would allow everyone to slap on an Accessport and make what the car is capable of, while allowing Toyota to maintain is vehicle heirarchy and flagship vehicle.

My biggest concern with a factory turbo is its going to change the dyanmics of the vehicle. I like the low torque, high-rev nature of our car. It's why I chose a Jackson Racing Supercharger for my FI Kit, as it really only amplifies the stock power band, while other SCs and Turbos load the car with low end torque and change its dynamic.

But alas...who knows, I'm just rambling on what COULD happen. Source is my head making up crap....but who knows, torque news might run with this as fact!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by J1Avs

From a purely hypothetical perspective, this 1.8T would make sense if they go turbo. It likely can put out different power numbers, such as in the Levorg and Levorg STI Sport, so figure the next gen twin gets a detuned version of 1.8T in order to keep it out of the power figures of the 4 and 6 Supras.

Given they are introducing the 4 cylinder Supra into the Euro market where the twins also live....it seemingly only makes sense that the power figures would be lower in order to maintain some type of vehicle heirarchy.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a 205-225hp 1.8T.

Is it drastically more power, no. But it would allow everyone to slap on an Accessport and make what the car is capable of, while allowing Toyota to maintain is vehicle heirarchy and flagship vehicle.

My biggest concern with a factory turbo is its going to change the dyanmics of the vehicle. I like the low torque, high-rev nature of our car. It's why I chose a Jackson Racing Supercharger for my FI Kit, as it really only amplifies the stock power band, while other SCs and Turbos load the car with low end torque and change its dynamic.

But alas...who knows, I'm just rambling on what COULD happen. Source is my head making up crap....but who knows, torque news might run with this as fact!

Oh the gloves are off if they went turbo. There are many ways they could go but the 2.4 so many want/presume to/will be used would seem the least probable. Don't think they will tough.

A jump of 20 or 30 HP would appease some of the "it's too slow to beat minivans" crowd but leave the people that want to say it has more HP than the XXXX while sitting in a parking lot out in the cold and still whining. This fixation on 300+ HP numbers is just not realistic when looking at the niche the car was meant to fill.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Again, why do y'all want a truck engine in your sports car?

Because racecar! My first car was a 1969 Chevelle SS with a "truck" engine. A highly tuned truck engine I might add. A 425 h.p. 427 cu. in. four bolt main with a high lift cam, high compression pistons and a Holley 750 double pumper carburetor. Best 1/4 mile time was 11.74 seconds at 104.5 m.p.h. Also, with the 4.11 rear end ratio I used all four gears in that M22 rock crusher trans even just going to the corner store.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by troyguitar

People claim to like sporty stuff but what actually sells is trucks. Big things with lots of torque.

People claim to like shifting for themselves but they buy things that are so torquey that no shifting is necessary. Why shift when you can mash the gas?

The differential being that those "people claim" folks are people on forums like this whereas the majority of vehicles are purchased by persons that consider it to be not much different than their refrigerator. It's an appliance they have to buy and when they do they want all the best features even though they aren't going to use 2/3rds of them and it needs to fit 99% of their needs.

Trucks/SUVs sell because they are practical and have become basically "large luxury cars" in terms of creature features. If trucks still looked like the top of the line 1968 Ford F100 they would sell like they did then, to people who had things to haul, and to people that couldn't afford cars. Here's the brochure and here's the full option list:

Major standard features include:

240 cubic inch six cylinder engine
Three-speed manual transmission
Twin I-Beam front suspension
Color-keyed interior
Deluxe heater/defroster
Padded dash
Dual arm rests
Dome light
Seat belts
Dual padded sun visors
Ash tray
Two-speed windshield wipers
Windshield washer
Latching glove box
4-way emergency flashers
Reverse lights
Rear view mirror
Turn signals

Major options/packages include:

300 cubic-inch I-6 engine
360 cubic-inch V-8 engine
360 cubic-inch V-8 engine
Cruise-O-Matic automatic transmission
Power steering
Power brakes
Power front disc brakes (F-250/F-350 only)
Bucket seats
Camper Special Package (F-250 / 350 only) high-output battery, dual electric horns, high-capacity radiator, oil & amp gauges, western style mirrors, camper wiring harness, extended tailpipe, heavy-duty F-350-spec rear shocks, Camper Special badging)
Convenience Lighting Package (courtesy light door switches, cargo light)
Air Conditioning
AM radio
Dual horns
Two-tone exterior finish
Deluxe vinyl seats with cloth inserts
Carpeting
Perforated headliner
Deluxe interior trim
Shoulder safety belts
Cigarette lighter
Cab lights
Tool stowage box (for 8-foot Styleside beds only)
Clearance lights
Chrome bumpers
Chrome hubcaps
Body side moldings
Interior chrome trim
Bright metal grille & head lamp housings
Bright metal windshield trim

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The differential being that those "people claim" folks are people on forums like this whereas the majority of vehicles are purchased by persons that consider it to be not much different than their refrigerator. It's an appliance they have to buy and when they do they want all the best features even though they aren't going to use 2/3rds of them and it needs to fit 99% of their needs.

Trucks/SUVs sell because they are practical and have become basically "large luxury cars" in terms of creature features. If trucks still looked like the top of the line 1968 Ford F100 they would sell like they did then, to people who had things to haul, and to people that couldn't afford cars. Here's the brochure and here's the full option list:

Major standard features include:

240 cubic inch six cylinder engine
Three-speed manual transmission
Twin I-Beam front suspension
Color-keyed interior
Deluxe heater/defroster
Padded dash
Dual arm rests
Dome light
Seat belts
Dual padded sun visors
Ash tray
Two-speed windshield wipers
Windshield washer
Latching glove box
4-way emergency flashers
Reverse lights
Rear view mirror
Turn signals

where can i place my order?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by soundman98

where can i place my order?

My Grandfather had that very truck in "Meadowlark Yellow" as his daily driver on his farm. What a workhorse!