EL vs UEL Header Showdown

[Strat_FRS]

Plus an in-depth view of clearing your oil pickup.

Thought you will enjoy this episode.

[dragoontwo]

Very timely video as I just put CSG era ACE350 on my 2022. Now I don't feel so bad for saving them.

Thanks strat!

[OkieSnuffBox]

Before I spend almost half an hour watching this, when you put the headers on did you give each one a specific dyno tune? Or did you just throw them on?

[vindiesel]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Before I spend almost half an hour watching this, when you put the headers on did you give each one a specific dyno tune? Or did you just throw them on?

Looks like they threw them on and didn’t disclose that they tuned them specifically for the car. They both made same peak hp/trq. The unequal filled in so torque dip the equal headers did not.

So unless they dyno both of them specifically and have it tuned for the same car on the same dyno then the data to me would be relatively inconclusive other than if Ricky Bobby slapped this on his car and called it a day with a negligible difference other than a sound preference.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

Looks like they threw them on and didn’t disclose that they tuned them specifically for the car. They both made same peak hp/trq. The unequal filled in so torque dip the equal headers did not.

So unless they dyno both of them specifically and have it tuned for the same car on the same dyno then the data to me would be relatively inconclusive other than if Ricky Bobby slapped this on his car and called it a day with a negligible difference other than a sound preference.

Ugh, so they are just perpetuation the UEL for low end, EL for top end myth. It's pretty well known that the ACE needs a lot of changes to the AVCS tables.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

Looks like they threw them on and didn’t disclose that they tuned them specifically for the car. They both made same peak hp/trq. The unequal filled in so torque dip the equal headers did not.

So unless they dyno both of them specifically and have it tuned for the same car on the same dyno then the data to me would be relatively inconclusive other than if Ricky Bobby slapped this on his car and called it a day with a negligible difference other than a sound preference.

So basically a useless comparison? Although judging by what I see in the FB groups, I can bet a large portion of guys do just that.

[vindiesel]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

So basically a useless comparison? Although judging by what I see in the FB groups, I can bet a large portion of guys do just that.

Unless op tells us the details I would say it makes sense if you just plan on putting headers on with no tune. So in regards to “which style header makes more power without a tune” would be more accurate video description but doesn’t necessarily end the “vs” part without tuning them both.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

Unless op tells us the details I would say it makes sense if you just plan on putting headers on with no tune. So in regards to “which style header makes more power without a tune” would be more accurate video description but doesn’t necessarily end the “vs” part without tuning them both.

Even that is not really that comparable though. Not all UEL's and not all EL's are the same. Just looking at where the Borla is compared to the JDL, you can clearly see the JDL is longer with bigger primaries. This is probably having a much larger effect then EL vs UEL. Longer tube headers on the first gen seem to need a much more attention to the AVCS table. The ACE needs a much different table, as does the nameless to take advantage. Way too many factors are changing here to just call this EL vs UEL.

Edit: And I am not just putting this out there to criticize the OP, but when you put stuff like this out there it is fodder for discussion.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Haven't watched the vid, but just to add to the conversation...

Another way to do an untuned comparison is to reset the ECU before each set of pulls. Otherwise, all your Long-Term trims are going to be based on what WAS in the car. Resetting the ECU will give you results that are not biased or skewed and will be based on how the car naturally makes power. The argument can be made that 'they need a tune', and of course that's always a good idea to optimize power and efficiency, but none of these products are going to push any tables out of range, they just wouldn't be optimized, but at least the test would be more comparable.

[AK2112]

I see the lines on the graph, but what are the actual numbers?

[Strat_FRS]

I recommend watching the video. Each header we tested we optimized the calibration for.

[eyeballs]

Interesting. Very surprised to see the UEL coming out on top. I'm running the JDL EL on mine but have not taken it to a dyno. Scary amount of sealant on the pickup though! Mine was only about 40% clogged IIRC.

[Strat_FRS]

Originally Posted by eyeballs

Interesting. Very surprised to see the UEL coming out on top. I'm running the JDL EL on mine but have not taken it to a dyno. Scary amount of sealant on the pickup though! Mine was only about 40% clogged IIRC.

This is an early car - not sure if that makes much difference in terms of the sealant.



I was honestly surprised myself to not see more gains from the EL headers in the top end like we see with the 2.0 motor. There was no further power to extract there. There is just a touch more past the peak - but we are talking a couple hp - right in the same area we saw the gains with the intake.



The OEM headers on the 2.4 are quite bit better than what the 2.0 had to start with as well.

[DocWalt]

It seems like the engine is just plain out of flow up top, interestingly.