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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ |
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01-20-2022, 09:50 AM | #57 | |
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So the discussion regarding AP1 vs AP2 and which has the better motor could be more subjective (depending on what you prefer tq or hp), meanwhile 1st gen vs 2nd gen BRZ the motor discussion regarding which is better is clearly more objective? |
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01-20-2022, 10:11 AM | #58 | ||
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The power increase in the 2nd gen twins for many folks made the difference between a "great car that's slow" and a "great car that's quick enough," and ultimately, that's really what matters. It's finally passed the bar for "quick enough"--and yes, there is a binary distinction there. A sports car with an underwhelming engine just isn't well-rounded. |
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01-20-2022, 10:34 AM | #59 |
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01-20-2022, 10:42 AM | #60 | |
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So I can kind of see the connection he's making. 1st gen 86 has the smaller engine, makes less power/torque, and is slower than 2nd gen. But it's also lighter and more raw overall, sort of like the AP1. In the S2000 community, there was a rift between AP1 and AP2 owners when the AP2 came out. It kind of continues today, although mostly joking around. -------------------- Back to the original topic, I think Subaru/Toyota really shot themselves in the foot with the 1st gens having the sound tube. After I removed mine, I was pretty shocked how refined and smooth (albeit quiet) the engine sounded. It actually felt smoother in the upper RPM's than my friend's AP2 for example. From videos, the 2nd gen cars seem to have a smoother synthetic engine note than the 1st gen's gritty sound tube so that should help.
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01-20-2022, 10:46 AM | #61 | |
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01-20-2022, 10:55 AM | #62 |
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He was responding to a comment that the 1st gen felt more raw to drive, albeit slower. He connected that to AP1 vs. AP2. He's not saying the FA20 is better.
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01-20-2022, 11:00 AM | #63 |
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Gotcha. I guess I'm ok with a car feeling slightly less "raw" for 50 more hp, and spending the $300 in poly bushings to add some "raw" NVH back into the car later.
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01-20-2022, 11:08 AM | #64 |
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AP1 vs. AP2 isn't exactly analogous. AP2 tested 1mph faster in the 1/4 vs. AP1, 2nd-gen FT86 is *6mph* faster in the 1/4 vs. 1st-gen.
While AP2s typically dyno 3-5% higher, they have less rpm headroom above power peak. For me, most of the AP1 vs. AP2 changes are desirable, but losing 800-1000rpm was a disappointment for many of us... Improving the rear suspension geometry for the AP2 was a big benefit and IMO didn't make it "less raw", it just fixed a glaring error. Glass rear window with defrost? Fine! I went with a glass window when I replaced the top in my AP1. For gen-2 FT86, you get +20% torque most places and +30% in the midrange, same peak power rpm, basically unchanged redline/rev-limiter (+100rpm on the tach), barely any weight gain, it all looks great to me! Except for slightly even more abysmal weight distribution at ~55.5/44.5 vs. 55/45... |
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01-20-2022, 11:40 AM | #65 |
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[QUOTE=ZDan;3498248]AP1 vs. AP2 isn't exactly analogous. AP2 tested 1mph faster in
For gen-2 FT86, you get +20% torque most places and +30% in the midrange, same peak power rpm, basically unchanged redline/rev-limiter (+100rpm on the tach), barely any weight gain, it all looks great to me! Except for slightly even more abysmal weight distribution at ~55.5/44.5 vs. The weight distribution is annoying. Looking for a lightweight battery and about to install Cusco rear LCAs because they looked like the heaviest I could find haha. Never got on with my AP2. The lack of steering feel was a big disappointment. Also the chassis felt wobbly. Don't know the figures bit I'd guess the torsional rigidity to be quite low. Found the S2k to be less than the sum of its parts where the 86s are more than the sum or their parts. |
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01-20-2022, 11:58 AM | #66 |
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01-20-2022, 12:21 PM | #67 | ||
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01-20-2022, 12:35 PM | #68 | |
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Good call |
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01-20-2022, 12:56 PM | #69 |
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Adding weight to the rear to change the distribution seems silly. Lightweight battery and AP Sprint brakes alone on the front pulls 40+ lbs out. Lightweigh 17" wheels will pull even more.
Not to mention, on the street or for the average HPDE driver, I seriously doubt you'd even notice the small change in weight distribution by adding the "trunk junk" back. |
01-20-2022, 01:07 PM | #70 | |
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FWIW I run to a minimum weight for my class, so I run with all the trunk junk, sub-5 lb. battery, 2-piece front rotors, catless header, empty washer reservoir, around 55 lb. off the nose of the car, still ~53.5F/46.5R. Just wish they'd make a shorter-wheelbase version with rear wheels moved forward ~10". Or same wheelbase with both fronts and rears moved ~4" forward. That would give it a decent 50/50 - 52/48 F/R weight distribution for an FR car. Also, it looks frankly ridiculous having the rear wheels shoved way far aft, as if that's what people who miss the Scion tC might want! |
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