Tesla Motors Bitch-Slaps Lying "Journalist"

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The Model S can get from 160-200 miles range. How is that relegated to city only? It's perfectly suited for the US and NOT Europe like the Leaf, Focus, etc are.

It's a good range, I would say city/suburbs, but its not up for much of a road trip.

If you're going on a road trip figure your going to be getting closer to the 160 miles about (2.5 hours of driving). Then if you need to go further then that you need to charge for 8 hours (I think) for a 100% charge. That's assuming you can find someplace to charge that's at a good stoping point.

Practically you have an 80 mile range from home because let's face it, most of the time your gonna have to do it on a single charge. Between the limited availability of charge stations, and the time it takes to charge its just not practical to charge along the way.

I cold do just fine with an electric car for most of my needs, but I would have to have access to a gas powered vehicle to go out of town. To bad I (like the majority of city dwellers) don't have a garage or other place I could plug in at home.

[MVJ1975]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The Model S can get from 160-200 miles range. How is that relegated to city only? It's perfectly suited for the US and NOT Europe like the Leaf, Focus, etc are.

200 miles is barely a single state. I can't even go to my parents' house in PA on the Tesla's range, and we're talking the very populated and close-together Northeast here. Go into flyover country and the nearest city might be 300 miles away.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The Model S can get from 160-200 miles range. How is that relegated to city only? It's perfectly suited for the US and NOT Europe like the Leaf, Focus, etc are.

This is incorrect. There are options that give the Tesla S over 300 mile range. I got 326 miles from a single charge and I was driving the car like I would drive any car.

The Tesla S is truly impressive and until you spend some time behind the wheel there is no amount of reading that can accurately portray the experience.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

200 miles is barely a single state. I can't even go to my parents' house in PA on the Tesla's range, and we're talking the very populated and close-together Northeast here. Go into flyover country and the nearest city might be 300 miles away.

You're both assuming these are going to be the only car available. Something like ~80% of drivers commute less than 40 miles per day. That's a vast majority. Even further, 90% commute less than 60 miles per day.
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-di...miles-per-day/

While it's entirely possible to road trip them, the logistics would overwhelm most people. Find an open wall plug, plug in charger.

Originally Posted by neutron256

Practically you have an 80 mile range from home because let's face it, most of the time your gonna have to do it on a single charge. Between the limited availability of charge stations, and the time it takes to charge its just not practical to charge along the way.

That is a ridiculous assumption, IMHO. Sure some people live in an apartment and park at the far end of a parking lot and for these unlucky people, life surely sucks. But anywhere there are houses, there are 220 volt plugs or at least one outdoor outlet. If you're buying a new car the cost of hiring an electrician to put in a 220volt plug is hardly a major expense.

Originally Posted by chadstyle

This is incorrect. There are options that give the Tesla S over 300 mile range. I got 326 miles from a single charge and I was driving the car like I would drive any car.

The Tesla S is truly impressive and until you spend some time behind the wheel there is no amount of reading that can accurately portray the experience.

I'm not being negative about the range or being negative. I'm arguing that even the lower trims are more than sufficient.

[MVJ1975]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

You're both assuming these are going to be the only car available. Something like ~80% of drivers commute less than 40 miles per day. That's a vast majority. Even further, 90% commute less than 60 miles per day.
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-di...miles-per-day/

While it's entirely possible to road trip them, the logistics would overwhelm most people. Find an open wall plug, plug in charger.

And that's great - but, again, who uses a luxobarge to go 60 miles? The car itself says "comfy highway cruiser" but it can't do that, yet - not until the infrastructure is in place. And that infrastructure, for much of the country, is going to take quite some time.

It's not quite as simple as "find outlet, plug in car". The car takes hours to charge from a 120v outlet. Having to make an overnight stop when an ICE or Hybrid car could simply refuel and press on is, frankly, unacceptable.

I like the car. It's well-done, and it's a fantastic technology demonstrator. I'm eager to see where things go from here.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

And that's great - but, again, who uses a luxobarge to go 60 miles? The car itself says "comfy highway cruiser" but it can't do that, yet - not until the infrastructure is in place. And that infrastructure, for much of the country, is going to take quite some time.

It's not quite as simple as "find outlet, plug in car". The car takes hours to charge from a 120v outlet. Having to make an overnight stop when an ICE or Hybrid car could simply refuel and press on is, frankly, unacceptable.

I like the car. It's well-done, and it's a fantastic technology demonstrator. I'm eager to see where things go from here.

I know it doesn't translate well for someone only comfortable with ICEs. Many people buy cars for short distances. 60 miles takes time. How often do people travel an hour one way? The answer is not every day.

It isn't necessary to always top off the battery. Even if you fill it up to 80%, that's okay. If you're in a hurry you can partially charge it. Fully charging requires balancing which is extra time intensive. Ideally, you still fully charge it after you get home or stop for the night, this helps balance the batteries for longevity.

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

You're both assuming these are going to be the only car available. Something like ~80% of drivers commute less than 40 miles per day. That's a vast majority. Even further, 90% commute less than 60 miles per day.
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-di...miles-per-day/

While it's entirely possible to road trip them, the logistics would overwhelm most people. Find an open wall plug, plug in charger.



That is a ridiculous assumption, IMHO. Sure some people live in an apartment and park at the far end of a parking lot and for these unlucky people, life surely sucks. But anywhere there are houses, there are 220 volt plugs or at least one outdoor outlet. If you're buying a new car the cost of hiring an electrician to put in a 220volt plug is hardly a major expense.



I'm not being negative about the range or being negative. I'm arguing that even the lower trims are more than sufficient.

I'm not saying this isn't a good car for commuting, but the article in question wasn't about daily commuting. It was about taking an east coast road trip using Tesla's network of charging stations. Going long distances in electric cars at present may be possible in a very few areas, but its far from practical.

And as for "some people" living in apartments, 32% of Americans rent, and this number goes up dramatically in urban areas where electric cars make the most sense. Personally I own, but its in an older part of the city where many houses have no off street parking because they were built before most people owned cars. The city has yet to answer my inquire about putting in a personal curbside charging station.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I know it doesn't translate well for someone only comfortable with ICEs. Many people buy cars for short distances. 60 miles takes time. How often do people travel an hour one way? The answer is not every day...

For the most part I agree with you that, as a second/commuter car, electrics can fill the bill.

The question is though how many people buy cars to ONLY for that purpose. I expect all my cars to be able to accomplish any mission (at least in terms of distance) I choose to throw at it.

Sure, if you plan appropriately I believe a Tesla S comes as close as you can get to a conventional car. The problem is the trade offs, like I mention above (watch the heat, watch the speed, watch the temp, etc).

In addition, in a gas powered car if I'm worried about range, I can throw one or more gas cans in the back (I've done that when crossing rural areas or off-road) and if I run out of gas I can always walk and bring fuel back, or have fuel brought to me. Hard to do either with an electric (well I guess you could take a generator with you).

[Gixxersixxerman]

Sooooo.. If I'm going 60 miles.. My car gets 30 mpg... I'm only going to put in a gallon and hope I make it...

He would've made it had he recharged longer.. Or used the high charging instead of low.. And who drives 15mph in a parking lot looking for a charge station???

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

For the most part I agree with you that, as a second/commuter car, electrics can fill the bill.

The question is though how many people buy cars to ONLY for that purpose. I expect all my cars to be able to accomplish any mission (at least in terms of distance) I choose to throw at it.

Sure, if you plan appropriately I believe a Tesla S comes as close as you can get to a conventional car. The problem is the trade offs, like I mention above (watch the heat, watch the speed, watch the temp, etc).

In addition, in a gas powered car if I'm worried about range, I can throw one or more gas cans in the back (I've done that when crossing rural areas or off-road) and if I run out of gas I can always walk and bring fuel back, or have fuel brought to me. Hard to do either with an electric (well I guess you could take a generator with you).

Just because of where I live, where the work is and what it pays.. There are a lot of people that work at fort Irwin here in the high desert of so cal that buy commuter cars just for the sole purpose of going back and forth to work.. The closest town, Barstow where I live is 35-37 miles.. And Victorville, apple valley is 75-90 miles away, like where my parents live.. And they buy the cars that get great fuel mileage just for driving back and forth.. My dad goes through 600-800 dollars a month in his dodge ram 2500 diesel, yet a quarter of that for his new kia rio.. Why he bought the Kia... The reason is, he makes close to 160k a year, I was making about 80k... A tesla if I could afford it would be great for me, and now that they are doing that supercharge station here in Barstow, it , as far as I've read, is free to use.. So I wouldn't have to pay to even charge my tesla if I had one, provided they allow free charging daily.. I can get up run to the charge station and sit and have my Starbucks while charging..

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

^good examples above^

There are going to be a percentage of folks where it makes sense, but is that enough to sustain a car company in a truly free market?

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

...So I wouldn't have to pay to even charge my tesla if I had one, provided they allow free charging daily.. I can get up run to the charge station and sit and have my Starbucks while charging..

There is no free ride, that is either built into the cost of Tesla doing business, Some percentage of the cost of every Tesla is going into funding these stations for those fortunate enough to live near one. If not that you are funding it with your taxes.

In the end, it can't be free forever. Electrics (and other alternatives) are such a small part of the fleet right now that them not paying road taxes is a rounding error. Eventually, that portion will catch up with them if nothing else.

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

Sooooo.. If I'm going 60 miles.. My car gets 30 mpg... I'm only going to put in a gallon and hope I make it...

He would've made it had he recharged longer.. Or used the high charging instead of low.. And who drives 15mph in a parking lot looking for a charge station???

The whole circles in a parking lot thing just makes me think Tesla is making excuses. He only drove 0.5 miles "in circles" in the parking lot. That would have made almost no difference for the overall trip.

Tesla needs to just explain what caused the problems, not try to discredit reviewers. They just look bad when they do that.

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

Just because of where I live, where the work is and what it pays.. There are a lot of people that work at fort Irwin here in the high desert of so cal that buy commuter cars just for the sole purpose of going back and forth to work.. The closest town, Barstow where I live is 35-37 miles.. And Victorville, apple valley is 75-90 miles away, like where my parents live.. And they buy the cars that get great fuel mileage just for driving back and forth.. My dad goes through 600-800 dollars a month in his dodge ram 2500 diesel, yet a quarter of that for his new kia rio.. Why he bought the Kia... The reason is, he makes close to 160k a year, I was making about 80k... A tesla if I could afford it would be great for me, and now that they are doing that supercharge station here in Barstow, it , as far as I've read, is free to use.. So I wouldn't have to pay to even charge my tesla if I had one, provided they allow free charging daily.. I can get up run to the charge station and sit and have my Starbucks while charging..

So going by what you're saying you'd go about 70 miles round trip every day. Tesla says their standard charger gets 31 miles of range per hour of charging (optimal conditions probably) http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/def...stallguide.pdf
So... 2.25 hours in Starbucks waiting around for your car to charge every day? Maybe that works for you but I personally would go nuts.

On the plus side assuming your charging at home and not making any side trips the basic Model S would work great for your commuting.

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by neutron256

So going by what you're saying you'd go about 70 miles round trip every day. Tesla says their standard charger gets 31 miles of range per hour of charging (optimal conditions probably) http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/def...stallguide.pdf
So... 2.25 hours in Starbucks waiting around for your car to charge every day? Maybe that works for you but I personally would go nuts.

On the plus side assuming your charging at home and not making any side trips the basic Model S would work great for your commuting.

According to what I read, unless I mis read it.. The supercharge stations fill 0-75% I believe in 30 minutes.. I'd say I'd use lest then 50% of the battery a day, so I'd still think maybe around 30 mins a morning would be good...

Also run down to a good size parking lot and run circles for half a mile at 15 miles an hour and let me know how long that takes...

This guy hates electric cars.. The battery was at zero.. He was trying to kill it.. Looking for something in the parking lot does not involve 15 mph laps