How to align a car?

[Stomachbuzz]

So, a couple of things...

1. As I learn more about suspension geometry and optimal setup, I'm quickly realizing how important alignment really is. Like, a serious factor, not just some imaginary "that cold air intake adds 10hp" type of bs.
2. I hate getting alignments done.

As the dynamics of your vehicle change during loading (a hard corner), the suspension geometry changes significantly, especially camber. The already painfully small contact patch shared between the tire and the road can shrink even more - OR not! A correct alignment can account for this and be pre-set to offer the optimal suspension geometry while in the turn (or under load), so the contact patch may stay the same or even get bigger (?) if dialed in correctly.

So, next thing - how to align a vehicle?
I've always hated taking my car to a shop for 'painful' services, such as wheel alignment.
Painful? Why?
I'm not quite sure!

Maybe it's that I can't really tell it's done properly. The print-outs always look suspiciously similar.
I also don't have much confidence in the 'finger grabber' thing they put over your wheel to sync with the alignment rack. I guess visually similar to a 3-arm gear puller.

Maybe because it's like the one thing I can't do at home.

OR can I?

With regular alignments on stock suspension, just give the local place $100 to get it 'good enough'. These alignments can technically be done in your driveway with string and lasers and such, or so I've read, but it's not worth it for me.

But what about aftermarket suspension components with measurements? I noticed camber plates have markings for camber adjustment.
Do other components have these measurements as well? Designed to dial them in symmetrically and be perfectly aligned?


I suppose the most proper way would be a performance auto shop.
I assume these types of services are more expensive, but done properly to your desired specs.
Is it realistic that people might change alignments regularly? Like an aggressive track day alignment vs DD specs?

I was reading how adjustable coilovers have variable pre-load and variable damping. And I was like whoooaaaa that's pretty smart. So you can change your spring rate and damping very quickly AND individually dial in each corner due to non-uniform weight distribution. Crank them up at the track, and soften them back for the drive home.

[86MLR]

Spend $100 and get exactly what you want at a "good" tyre shop

Or

Spend around $25k for a hoist or pit, and an alignment machine, and do the same job yourself.

Or

Do an average job yourself with some string and some straight edges, and alot of time, and bloody knuckles, and time.

Me, I drop $100 for an alignment at a shop.

Read: Macpherson Strut vs Double wish bone, the twins have Macpherson strut.

Double wishbone is best.

Your alignment settings are based on your tyre type/compound/track surface and how they wear in your chosen discipline.

Suspension setting are simular, but also taking into account your driving style and handling preference, understeer/oversteer/entry/mid corner/exit......and stuff

Opinions may vary

[Stomachbuzz]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Spend $100 and get exactly what you want at a "good" tyre shop

Or

Spend around $25k for a hoist or pit, and an alignment machine, and do the same job yourself.

Or

Do an average job yourself with some string and some straight edges, and alot of time, and bloody knuckles, and time.

Me, I drop $100 for an alignment at a shop.

I agree, but a $100 alignment is a 'Jiffy Lube' type of shop. Some chain corporation that hires 17 year olds for $11.50/hr.

I would expect a performance shop to be $200 or more for an alignment, but I've never called and asked.
Again, even if you're fine with $200 each time, it still isn't practical to switch frequently between alignment specs.
Or experiment with different measurements.

[Mr.ac]

Short answer yes, also yes it's going to cost about a grand, give or take.

Here's the deal, some alignment shops are operated by the motto "toe in, toe out". Meaning they don't want nor care to do a decent job. It's a money grab.

Then again, there are great shops that really do their job, road test, and dail it in. Some even let you sit in the car so it's properly dailed in.

So sometimes you really have to shop around to find a good shop.

Yes, you can buy DIY rigs, the more money you spend the better the result.
Having fully adjustable coils over can make it easier. But knowing the right degrees of camber is only done if you have an alignment rig.

[Stomachbuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Short answer yes, also yes it's going to cost about a grand, give or take.

Here's the deal, some alignment shops are operated by the motto "toe in, toe out". Meaning they don't want nor care to do a decent job. It's a money grab.

Then again, there are great shops that really do their job, road test, and dail it in. Some even let you sit in the car so it's properly dailed in.

So sometimes you really have to shop around to find a good shop.

Yes, you can buy DIY rigs, the more money you spend the better the result.
Having fully adjustable coils over can make it easier. But knowing the right degrees of camber is only done if you have an alignment rig.

Gotcha.

So it's not really a thing where a company sells a comprehensive suspension kit and then gives you measurements to yield desired specs?

Like "RLCA 14 threads exposed = -2deg camber"?
It's simple geometry really, but not so simple to get precise measurements with linear hand tools.

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by Stomachbuzz

Gotcha.

So it's not really a thing where a company sells a comprehensive suspension kit and then gives you measurements to yield desired specs?

Like "RLCA 14 threads exposed = -2deg camber"?
It's simple geometry really, but not so simple to get precise measurements with linear hand tools.

Well most of the time it's in the ballpark. Every car is different, some might have bent frames by something as simple as hitting a deep pot hole.

This is why everyone that has put on coil overs will mark evenly each ride height on the coils only to find out once installed one side looks higher/lower than the rest.

[86MLR]

My local JAX at Liverpool will align my car to whatever spec I give them, all for $80.

A good shop will do a good job, and they won't charge the world, an alignment isn't rocket science, you loosen and adjust and tighten and check, that's it.

Knowing what is required is something the owner should know, reading the face of the tyre will give you all the info you need for a street/club car, or a pyrometer for a dedicated track car.

It takes 30 minutes max to do front and rear camber and toe settings, that's taking in initial setup.

Tell them your required specs, get a print out, the only reason that you wouldn't get what you asked for should be lack of mechanical adjustment.

If they try charging more than $100 they are taking the piss.

I've found for street cars, alignment settings will always be a compromise between performance and wear, same same for dampening settings, track car settings are easier because you know what track you are hitting and your "little black book" should have all the data you have gained to set up for that track, and running aggressive toe setting isn't a issue.

Where as overly aggressive settings on the street gets expensive due to excessive tyre wear, and sometimes to the point of dangerous, a good aggressive dry setup will have you spearing off the road in the wet.

[JD001]

@86lmr you forgot to say after aligning it at home the OP then posts numerous posts on various threads asking if it's "normal" that his/her car crabs down the road...

[churchx]

It's possible to DIY align and it will be sufficiently precise .. and will be PITA to do and take lot of time. Certainly prefer method of having coffee while suspension tech quickly do the job on his expensive laser alignment rig.


1) worth asking around for trusty local suspension shops with good quality of work. Friends, local forums and so on .. some dealerships are bad with dialing outside OE alignments/working with aftermarket parts/sometimes overcharge, so i prefer tuning shops that i or my friends had good experiences with
2) you should know what numbers to ask to dial in. Not always possible to select car type on specific rig and have OE alignment numbers/ranges preset. Even more so, if you want non OE alignment but eg. more track oriented or one that changes handling to different one vs OE.
3) if wished alignment numbers are outside OE adjustment ranges, especially for not adjustable settings, add adjustability buy extra aftermarket parts (eg. camberbolts/camberplates/rear LCAs and such). Stock our cars have only toe adjustment, no camber adjustment.
4) ask suspension shop to dial more precise/even, and ask printout of alignment to increase chances of quality job and to have as reference for debugging handling issues or deciding what handling changes from this alignment one wishes.

Do homework on (1.) & (2.) of finding good shop and what alignment you wish. (if OE is ok with you, then OE alignment numbers for these cars. If performance alignment for specific use, then find out which should one aim for, at least in ballpark (for very best track alignment, which can be different from tires used and from own driving/handling preferences, one should use tire pyrometer)).
OE alignment is not that bad (for daily driving), except some may dislike that it's rather understeer biased and also it has by far insufficient camber for track use, resulting on uneven tire wear (of their outsides, especially of front tires) if one tracks car, and that it allows too wide ranges of values as passing, including at extremes of ranges also alignments with handling issues (hence even for new car, even only DD driven, even for OE alignment, worth at least one do realign to check/dial more precise/even).

I wouldn't worry too much of dynamical suspension geometry changes. Toyobaru engineers are smart enough to design good suspension for it to mostly work well. Unless of course one fscks up their work and mods suspension in way to introduce limitations for it's proper functioning / geometry, eg. all that hella-camber, overdone lowering/drop and so on.

[strat61caster]

Take to good alignment shop once/twice per year, learn to DIY minor adjustments, marks on parts and counting turns on adjusters to keep the adjustment symmetric will keep the car in check. Even a major adjustment like adding a degree of camber up front just requires a toe adjustment to balance out, the rear you typically adjust the two lower control arms together to achieve desired camber and toe and you're good, at once both straight forward and frustratingly difficult to achieve perfection.

There's a strong mid Atlantic autocross scene, I'd suspect there's a wealth of capable alignment shops available with some research.

Know the torque specs for the parts that get clamped into place like the rear toe arms, hit the torque specs, no less.

Edit: when I was reading about aligning street cars I really appreciated this write up:
https://robrobinette.com/S2000Alignment.htm

[cjd]

I do my own alignments and corner balancing. I hate the process as it takes 6-8hrs. Sometimes more if I need a bunch of ride height tweaking. Part of this is the space I have to work in... Its not much. It takes a lot less time if all I can tweak is toe. The rear sucks up most of that time.

I made a string setup which hangs off the car and is exact in string location. I have leveling pads and spent forever getting them set up (I marked the floor so I don't have to do this every time). Level is important. I optimized every bit to make it as efficient as possible.

It has paid for itself at $400 balance/alignment rates. Except the time investment, which still sucks. Its part of the race car ritual at this point, and I just give myself a few days to get it all done (car stays up - I don't drive typically, so there's no rush).

I don't recommend the process.

[churchx]

Exactly - one still needs to buy some tools like pads, caster-camber gauges, and even if you are not doing it first time it still takes you that much time. If it really costs in US $400 to align car at shop, maybe it can pay off sooner. But here in LV i pay for alignment ~$50, way less then i would earn daily working in primary job. Imho many value own off-job time too low, it's not exactly "free".
For cost of DIY alignment tools, and potential total sum of days wasted on several alignments that i could earn or spend on rest, i can alignment done in comfort for 10 years ahead. I know my choice.

[Stomachbuzz]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

If they try charging more than $100 they are taking the piss.

lol.
I see you're from Australia...

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Stomachbuzz

I was reading how adjustable coilovers have variable pre-load and variable damping. And I was like whoooaaaa that's pretty smart. So you can change your spring rate and damping very quickly AND individually dial in each corner due to non-uniform weight distribution. Crank them up at the track, and soften them back for the drive home.

Noooo. Spring preload is not the same as spring rate.

Linear springs are linear, meaning the spring rate does not change as you compress the spring. Compressing the first inch of a 400 lbs/in spring takes 400 lbs. Compressing it the next inch takes another 400 lbs/in. The spring rate does not change. *assuming the linear spring actually is linear.

Sorry I see this all the time and it was just on some major YouTube series and I wanted to scream. If you want to change the spring rate, you need to change the spring.

- Andrew