To Build or to buy

[sturner53]

Hey there, I currently have a 2015 Scion FRS on stock block and internals running 12 psi of boost with e85. My goals are to eventually get about 470 - 500 whp, and i was wondering if it was better to buy and build a block, or if i could take apart the stock block and rebuild the internals. Thank you and sorry for the stupid questions.

2015 Scion FRS
-SBD500X Turbo Kit
-1050CC Injectors
-E85
-Currently at 357WHP According to Street Tune

[Rookie_34]

How long have you had the turbokit on? Can you or do you have any videos/pulls? Im just wondering cuz one day i would like to boost. All the online videos are crap!

[sturner53]

Originally Posted by Rookie_34

How long have you had the turbokit on? Can you or do you have any videos/pulls? Im just wondering cuz one day i would like to boost. All the online videos are crap!

I have a youtube channel with pulls and races against other vehicles, the turbo kit willhave been on for about a year now, i just want more power, and since im already 30k into the car after buying it, might as well sink with the ship haha

[86TOYO2k17]

A few different options.
No reason you can’t rebuild your block.
You could buy a built shortblock and or longblock and use yours as a core exchange.

350whp is pretty lucky and uncommon to last so long on a stock block unless it’s mostly easy street miles. But the general consensus is a fully built block can handle about 400-420whp. but again general concensus is 300-320whp for stock. So maybe you’ll be lucky.

You might have a better shot at 450+ with a closed deck block. in which case can’t rebuild yours.

What’s your channel?
You got a dragy?

[Irace86.2.0]

It is complicated. It depends on your access to a shop and how deep your pockets are.

In a perfect world, a local shop would have a fully built motor ready to drop in your car; they would swap the engine in a day or two, and you would get your car back fast; they would keep the old motor as a core charge, and you would get a refund for the core charge based on the condition of the motor after they disassembled it.

The reality is that you may live in an area where there are no builders, and if there are, they may have minimal machinery or skillsets, so if you want better sleeves, a closed deck block or special coatings then you might be out of luck. In that case, you may need to order a shortblock from IAG or something. If you just want to do piston, rods, ARP head studs, baffling, rings gapped, bearings, oil pump, hone and deck then most shops can do those things. Obviously, if you buy a shortblock in advance then the down time will be shorter, which may or may not matter to you.

What transmission are you going to go with?

[ls1ac]

Ok, got to ask, what are you planning to do with 500whp?
You are way into weakest link territory. New transmission, differential, body bracing.

[86TOYO2k17]

If/when i do a built engine, probably hitting up fullblown and bluemoon to see what a built stage 2 long block would cost with me sending my engine in for core exchange, or to just reuse my engine. I’ll pull engine / reinstall built engine, but i want it pre timed fully ready to drop in and go I’ll just need pulleys/manifold/accessories installed and new tune, I’d aim for 400-420whp on a friendly dynojet and call it a day.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by ls1ac

Ok, got to ask, what are you planning to do with 500whp?
You are way into weakest link territory. New transmission, differential, body bracing.

What don’t you plan to do with 500whp.

But yes you need a engine / trans swap to have it be reliable.

[weederr33]

Probably best to buy a block if you're seeking that power. CounterSpace Garage offers a Bluemoon Performance short block built to their specs. Or you could look into Full Blown. It all depends on your budget. And lastly, if money is not a concern whatsoever, go for gold and get one of the new HKS 2.2L fully built engines.

[GrabTheWheel]

500 WHP? I think you meant to post in the engine swap section.

[DarkPira7e]

Being a turbo enthusiast, I whole heartedly can recommend that if you want to be over 400 at the wheels, you'll need to have another 10K after you build that engine. You need to do something about the transmission. You need upgraded axles if you plan on gripping. You need wheels and tires that actually are functional and have width and compound that'll hold. You need cooling and functional venting to accommodate the heat in the engine bay. You'll need to upgrade the turbo, because given the size of the SBD turbo, I'm sure it starts blowing hot air after 20 PSI (And you will need it, if you build the block and lower your CR if you want more power than you have already).

I am currently in the rebuild. I had the same aspirations, and have been humbled by the sheer investment cost with this platform. I will build my block and be happy with high 300s without needing a crazy driveline. The real advantage to a built block is that with the upgraded rods, you don't need to manage low end torque so carefully. This opens up a much higher safety margin for your tuner and they can gear up the car to roast much earlier if the turbo is up to it ( I'm sure the SBD turbo has no problem spooling quickly.)

So really, it is your car. We can only give advice, but I'd say just accept that this platform is not reliable over 400WHP for long anywhere unless you are hooked up.

[ls1ac]

500whp translates to 625hp at the crank. That is over three time the designed load. With that kind of numbers and the needed supporting mods, an other engine might be the less expensive route. Evan more if you want it to last.
I have got cars with that kind of power and 3-4 seconds and you are in loss of license territory and that is if you can control the hookup. I have gone through two transmissions and three motors in one and three motors in the other. Not cheep and I worked in a shop.
That was why I asked what your plans were for that kind of power. I use mine on the track. The only time I am able to use the power is in higher gears well over 100mph.
I do know that a drifter will use the power.
That is why I asked.

[86TOYO2k17]

A guy selling a stage 3 IAG long block in classifieds. Used but just had a refresh. Probably your cheapest option for trying to make your goal on the FA20 with any chance of reliability.

[EAGLE5]

500hp for periodic freeway pulls in a safe tune is different from 500hp in time attack
is different from 500hp in a drag race. 500hp with approaching OEM reliability? LS swap.