Got to 183whp - cant get more

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Ny Brz

I was able to achieve 183 whp on my invidia catback and injen intake on the dynoet as well. When you free up the front pipes and overpipe you see more gains

Without putting your car on the same dyno on the same day the numbers aren't really comparable at all.

I can't disagree on the front pipe though, definitely need to replace the stock one!

[vgi]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i think @mad_sb did some testing where he found the stock maf scaling to be pretty bad even with all stock components.

i don't remember his post on maf scaling but remembered this one:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=338

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by vgi

i don't remember his post on maf scaling but remembered this one:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=338

I think @jamesm is referring to this one.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30418

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by s2d4

I think @jamesm is referring to this one.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30418

that is correct

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

i think something is wrong if you are on vp 103 !

[Shiv@Openflash]

Quick FYI: your posting results with SAE correction which is fine. But most of the results posted up here on the forum (including the one that I think you are comparing your results to) are displayed in STD correction. If you view your run in STD correction, you will probably pick up 3-5whp.

Also, as others have mentioned, if you are running VP103 you want to advance (not retard) timing. On that fuel, I would start adding 2 degrees of advance everywhere and then seeing where it helps and where it doesn't. Where it doesn't help, take it back out. Where it does help try putting more advance in in 0.5 deg increments until you stop gaining power. From my more advance will help up above 5000rpm where the tune, on pump gas, is knock limited.

shiv


Edit: my eyes must be playing tricks on me because your dyno results are STD corrected

[nelsmar]

As mentioned above stop playing with the target AFR to attempt to compensate. You need to scale your maf. this is easily done on street. Do this on the street prior to going to the dyno and only fine tune if needed. Start by only shifting the entire maf scaling small % at a time. Then fine tune as you go along.

Before going into "tune mode" I recommend disabling LTFT so that way no trims are affecting open loop. To do this you need to set your closed loop afr targets to 14.7, or set the bucket to 61g/s as per @jamesm.

If you do not do this your LTFT will be "swaying" your AFR. Attempting to get your targets lined up first, then tune the car, then re-enable your LTFT if so desired. Dont tune with them on as you will need to pay attention to your logs and compensate in your head every time you adjust.

I also do not see why you are removing ignition timing for VP 103 fuel. Could you shed some light towards us as to why you are doing this? If it was simply confusion this is easy to fix, you should be advancing for non-pump fuels over your standard pump. adding 1-3 ignition advance in loaded regions (e.g. 0.8+ load) and then incrementing at 0.5-1.0 at a time and monitoring your FLKC and other KC values closely if you do not have det cans.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

As mentioned above stop playing with the target AFR to attempt to compensate. You need to scale your maf. this is easily done on street. Do this on the street prior to going to the dyno and only fine tune if needed. Start by only shifting the entire maf scaling small % at a time. Then fine tune as you go along.

Before going into "tune mode" I recommend disabling LTFT so that way no trims are affecting open loop. To do this you need to set your closed loop afr targets to 14.7, or set the bucket to 61g/s as per @jamesm.

If you do not do this your LTFT will be "swaying" your AFR. Attempting to get your targets lined up first, then tune the car, then re-enable your LTFT if so desired. Dont tune with them on as you will need to pay attention to your logs and compensate in your head every time you adjust.

I also do not see why you are removing ignition timing for VP 103 fuel. Could you shed some light towards us as to why you are doing this? If it was simply confusion this is easy to fix, you should be advancing for non-pump fuels over your standard pump. adding 1-3 ignition advance in loaded regions (e.g. 0.8+ load) and then incrementing at 0.5-1.0 at a time and monitoring your FLKC and other KC values closely if you do not have det cans.

i agree with the above aside from two points:

first you'd never set closed loop targets to 14.7:1 to turn off long term trims. this would only do that as a side effect of effectively negating short term trims, which isn't a good way to go about it. do it with min/max values or af learning buckets. i agree it should be done for tuning purposes as it eliminates another variable. very much like setting initial iam to 1 while tuning timing, this should probably be reverted to stock (or at least re-enabled in some reduced capacity) after you're finished.

the other thing is with regard to timing, i would be sure to only add 0.7deg at a time at most. as always, the key to not blowing your car up (and thus eventual success) is in taking baby steps and following best practices.

[nelsmar]

Also to add if your not gaining power or the gain was very minor compare to another ifnition advance pull it back a tad. If you aren't gaining power from advance you would likely be pushing past MBT increasing cylinder pressure for little to no reason. And if the gain was smaller than the previous gain than you are likely near or at MBT and should consider pulling back to make the tune more conservative and less stressful.

Also @jamesm knows more on the subaru platform than me on open loop mechanics. Not to mention the fact his method is significantly easier to do than what I said which involves restoring the table later. I would go with his recommendation for LTFT.

[brn12345]

Thanks to all for all the helpful comments. My next reply to this post will include results of yesterdays 3 back to back tests of 1. Baseline running fresh flashed OFT Stage 2 1.42b 2. Removed Tomei 60s catback and went back to stock 3. Removed secondary cat. Very disappointed with the results. Watch the next post.

[PSJohnDoe]

How much have you spent so far in tuning and high octane fuel so far? Have you considered just going FI?

[brn12345]

Ok so I spent Friday afternoon on the dyno to try out the BRZ without the Tomei 60s exhaust (was too loud for me after header install), so I did the following:


Run #1 Fresh flashed OFT 1.42b Stage 2 with Tomei 60s (Dyno run #9)
Log here: http://datazap.me/u/brn12345/log9


Run #2 Removed Tomei 60s and installed stock exhaust (Dyno run #10)
Log here: http://datazap.me/u/brn12345/log10


Run #3 Removed secondary cat and continued running stock exhaust (Dyno run #13)
Log here: http://datazap.me/u/brn12345/log13


If anyone wants actual CSV or DRF files, feel free to ask me for them.

[nelsmar]

your tq has dropped on dyno #2 & #3, and if you look you are looking at a fair bit richer on both of these. When testing mods like this you want to make sure LTFT is not affecting your AFR's. Also verify that the oil, coolant, and IAT temps are near the same between pulls. Verify your ignition timing is near the same, if not look into why. Did you play with ignition tuning this time around? When you remove the OEM header and install a new cat-less one the EGT temps tend to drop allowing more aggressive tuning.

From what i am seeing here you just removed parts and made no tuning changes between so the changes will be minimal. With the secondary cat removed you should work on getting your AFR's close to your commanded AFR first. Then once the ecu is doing what you tell it to you can start working on timing and actual afr's.

[brn12345]

Originally Posted by PSJohnDoe

How much have you spent so far in tuning and high octane fuel so far? Have you considered just going FI?

- Tuning is free as I do it myself (Also thanks to Shiv for the free OFT maps)
- Dyno is free for me on Fridays and sometimes during the week when no one is booked
- I have 180litres of VP Motorsport 103 left over from last seasons circuit racing (I race in the local 2000cc championship) so that's free too
- Not really interested in FI