Manual, RWD, 4 seat convertible to replace a Twin?

[Ohio Enthusiast]

The nice weather coming up and driving my wife's C8 with the roof off got me thinking about replacing my BRZ with a convertible.
My hard requirements are 4 seats (BRZ size is fine), RWD, manual, good steering feel and fairly recent (ideally 2020 and up, but might consider something a little older).

Although I tracked the BRZ, I am not planning on tracking the convertible (as I'm moving to karting as a cheaper and higher thrill track replacement anyway). The car will be used for daily driving (mostly chauffeuring my kids to activities) and occasional back-road carving.

Looks like this leaves me with Camaro (almost new) and Mustang (new), with some BMW options a few years older (M4 up to 2018 and M240i up to 2020). 911s also meet the requirements, but they are too costly to buy and own.

Out of these the Camaro seems the best bet - Alpha platform is well praised and it has good feel. I test drove an automatic V8 convertible and it felt pretty nice. Next step is trying to find a manual to take for a spin, and then wait for a good car to purchase. Weight and visibility didn't feel like a dealbreaker in the test drive.

I'll be trying a Mustang as well, although I don't have high hopes (based on reviews) due to numb steering and lack of other communication to the driver.
The BMWs seem to also suffer from that, especially in the Fxx generations - numb steering and rubbery shifters.

Any other options I'm missing? Especially in older model years if reliable.
Anyone else made similar moves and can share their experience?

[Ohio Enthusiast]

I just took a 2024 manual coupe Mustang GT for a drive (after sitting in a convertible to check the rear seat room).
All the reviews I watched and read are spot on. The Mustang is a great car, roomy (rear seats are a little bigger than the BRZ, both for leg and head room, and especially for foot room), comfortable, powerful and sounds great.
The biggest letdown by far is the steering - completely numb. Always the same (low) weight, and that never changes. I realized that by the third turn on the road, taking a mild 90 degree turn to a rural highway. Several more twists and turns later only confirmed it (with the front outer wheel squealing but the steering remaining completely numb). It was so bad I cut the drive short. Shifter was quite rubbery, but I'm sure a short shifter kit and some bushing replacements could help with that. Clutch throw is comically long, with a vague bite point (but I'm sure it's something I would get used to if I owned it, and could probably be adjusted and any helping springs removed). Surprisingly I quite liked auto rev-match. I'm a diehard manual and heel-and-toe driver, but I found that letting the car rev-match on downshifts to not detract much from the driving experience, and allowed me to enjoy the nice V8 bark more.

Getting back to the BRZ was hilarious - I actually laughed out loud for a few minutes. Clutch is super short and heavy (no spring, adjusted to be lower and a Forester 3/4" slave cylinder). Shifter is super short and precise, a pleasure to operate (Billetworkz short shifter, all the shifter and transmission mount bushings and MTEC shifter springs). Steering is super solid, weighty and oh-so-communicative, even just putting around town.

This leaves the Camaro as the only manual option, but after some more thinking I'll maybe see what's on offer with an automatic (probably BMW).

[EAGLE5]

Mercedes makes some great convertibles with automatics. If you're going to get a modern, powerful, non-track car, you may as well get an automatic as it will be much faster than a manual that way. None of these are purist cars. Also, if you're going to have auto-rev match, you're 3/4 to an automatic as you're taking the only challenging part out of shifting.


If I got a convertible, it would almost certainly be a last gen E450 cabriolet. 2023 is the last year. Tons of them available new and used.


Also realize that a lot of convertibles are horrible with the top up. It does get cold in Ohio, ya know. Be sure to drive them top up and down.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Thanks for the suggestion. I did consider an automatic as it opens up a lot more options, but I'm still holding off for a manual. Still, so far I'm disappointed with the manual option availability, so thank you for the E450 recommendation.

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

If you're going to get a modern, powerful, non-track car, you may as well get an automatic as it will be much faster than a manual that way. None of these are purist cars. Also, if you're going to have auto-rev match, you're 3/4 to an automatic as you're taking the only challenging part out of shifting.

I disagree (on both accounts), but that's a matter of preference.
I don't feel engaged when manually shifting an automatic myself (even in good autos that are quick and really let you control the gearing (not just hitting redline, but just keeping the gear you select)). Not just "not as engaged as in a manual", but just not engaged at all.
I haven't driven an auto that is tuned exactly how I'd like it when left in auto-mode (including PDK). Regular shifting pattern is eco-minded, chasing the highest gear; "sport" modes just needlessly hang on to gears; "intelligent" or "adaptive" just mix up the two in strange ways. Easy example - accelerating moderately hard from a red light. In a manual I'd just hold on to the lower gears and then pop the transmission into a high gear, going back to "cruise-mode". Autos typically think that after that short burst of acceleration they should hold on to the last gear (like 2nd/3rd/etc) when I already reached the speed I want to. Harder example - back road carving, where autos would keep going up and down the gears, often leaving me in the wrong gear (too low or too high) in any particular moment.
The root cause of my issues with an automatic is that I have one input (how much the gas pedal is depressed) to control two things - engine power and transmission gear. No matter how good the transmission is it can't read my mind or know what's coming on the road. Even under manual control DCTs need to guess if you'd want to upshift or downshift to provide fast shifting, and I find they guess wrong fairly often.

Finally, I don't care about speed, especially on the street, so saying an auto is faster is a moot point.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Took a manual Camaro SS (coupe) for a drive yesterday. The shifter is only marginally better than the Mustang's (so I don't get the adoration to the Tremec or the hate on the MT-82) and the clutch is better but not by much. The LT1 V8 is even a bigger disappointment with the manual than the auto - its torque delivery is not fun and the super tall gearing make it very frustrating to use on the street. The Coyote felt much better (plus the Mustang is geared quite a bit shorter, even with the non-PP 3.55 final drive).
Other aspects of the Camaro were good, same as the automatic convertible test drive - steering and chassis were nice and the car didn't really feel huge and heavy vs. the BRZ.

This leads me to cross out both Camaro (due to engine/transmission combo) and Mustang (due to steering).

Next options are BMW 1 (E88) and 3 (E93) series convertibles - they still have hydraulic steering are not too old (last model years of 2013 and 2011, respectively). So far I'm liking what I'm reading, and should hopefully drive one next week.

Finally, although the original plan was to replace the BRZ with a 4 seat convertible (thus allowing for a higher budget and requiring a newer car), the dearth of options makes me consider a 2 seat convertible to add to the BRZ (at a lower budget, but more open to older cars). Right now an NC Miata is the top contender, and I'm looking for one for a test drive.

[Ultramaroon]

The twins are in a class by themselves. There is literally nothing else like them. Miatas are nice if the occupants are short enough to fit comfortably.

[Code Monkey]

Wife used to have a 2011 E93 M3, got it from CarMax with that awesome CarMax extended warranty. Missed that engine and steering so much that we got a 2011 E90 M3 last year, took a while to find the same color spec (Le Mans Blue on Bamboo Beige).

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

Wife used to have a 2011 E93 M3, got it from CarMax with that awesome CarMax extended warranty. Missed that engine and steering so much that we got a 2011 E90 M3 last year, took a while to find the same color spec (Le Mans Blue on Bamboo Beige).

Nice. I'll probably won't swing it for an M3, but an E93 is also on the radar. I do prefer the smaller and lighter E88 on paper (haven't driven either yet).

Did you have any issues with the metal convertible top? I'm reading that they are more prone to issues than a soft top (like in the E88).

[Code Monkey]

We had the E93 for 2 years only so can't say much about long term hard top reliability but we had no problems with it during our ownership.

[autoracer86]

I think the NC is the best of the MX5s. I loved the two I owned so those get my vote

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I'll be trying a Mustang as well, although I don't have high hopes (based on reviews) due to numb steering and lack of other communication to the driver.

MomHawk just test drove and ordered a 2024 Mustang EcoBoost Premium Convertible to replace her '05 Mustang (original owner, less than 120,000 miles) this past weekend. I drove and rode in it. It's a very solid car for what she wants, a decent run-about. The EcoBoost will double her gas mileage on her 2005 V6 and it shaves 2.3 seconds off the 0 - 60 time (down to 4.5 seconds). More car than she will need.

Still if given the choice between the two I'd take the Camaro (assuming you can find one if you want new). It's a better platform and I like the looks better. But then, I've always been a Camaro guy.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

MomHawk just test drove and ordered a 2024 Mustang EcoBoost Premium Convertible to replace her '05 Mustang (original owner, less than 120,000 miles) this past weekend. I drove and rode in it. It's a very solid car for what she wants, a decent run-about.

For sure, the Mustang was the better car than the Camaro (by quite a margin). If the steering had some feel I might have went with it, but it was completely dead.
The ideal pony car for me would be the Mustang interior and Coyote V8 engine, Camaro steering and chassis and much shorter gearing.

[HKz]

Actually a difficult one to figure. Not too many manual Japanese convertibles out there with backseats.. 240SX (first car I owned ) and maybe 300ZX are the only recent ones that come to mind though both were not directly from a nissan factory and I'm not even sure if 300ZX roadsters were made in both the long and short wb variants.

For newer and going non japanese, you obviously have a couple choices but none would make me feel satisfied as a twin replacement!

I personally want a stick in a LC roadster

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by HKz

240SX (first car I owned ) and maybe 300ZX are the only recent ones that come to mind

You and I have a very different definition of "recent".

Originally Posted by HKz

though both were not directly from a nissan factory

My wife actually suggested cutting the roof off of my BRZ. To be fair, it's not like it hasn't been done, but such extreme modifications are not for me.