T(h)or's GT86 hammer (Europe) - essential track setup

[Wayno]

I would absolutely 100% use the Stg1 MAF scale and not touch it at 3.2V and below. Then do whatever you want with it above that. I wouldn't run it leaner than 11.8 on the track.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Wayno

I would absolutely 100% use the Stg1 MAF scale and not touch it at 3.2V and below. Then do whatever you want with it above that. I wouldn't run it leaner than 11.8 on the track.

Ok, I'll take the advice. I could revert to the vanilla stg 1 scale, and thereafter do an OL scaling to richen it up. Or I might as well just flash the ROM you provide see if the MAF scale fits and see how it works out over time with the full 102 timing.

Thanks a lot again!

[Twinguin]

Originally Posted by Tor

That's actually a very simple solution to the problem. I wonder if it would be possible to put up as a suggestion somewhere.

I talked to one of the guys at the pit lane and he said he couldn't do it as he must stand at the pit lane exit.

On the other hand, the guy who waves the red flag, could just wave a checkered flag a lap before.

Or the guy who sits at the end of the main straight!


I have no idea, where to direct that suggestion!?

[nikitopo]

Tire pressure before and after (actual cold pressure was 2.06 Bar, as it the tires cooled to ambient 26 deg C before going on the track) - snowflake is cold, sun is hot:


...
Edit (looked):
2.45 (35 psi) doesn't look too bad, I think. And is not completely out of line with what Yokohama recommends (32-34 psi).

I know what site you are mentioning. They are too conservative with their tire pressures and it is not an official site of Yokohama Japan. Just an article of an unknown guy working for Yokohama Australia. In fact by having a pressure of 2.1 cold, your tires are deflated and you are losing 1-2 runs to hot your tires. Can you do a professional warm-up cycle in GP-Strecke like racing drivers doing before the race? I don't think they'll let you do this in tourist fahren days in GP-Strecke ...

I remember there was a video of Tetsuya Yamano who was responsible of designing the new RE-71R tire for Bridgestone. In fact this tire should be called the Tetsuya Yamano tire. He is one of the top racers in Japan and he was testing these tires using also a GT86/BRZ car. He was mentioning that it is pretty fine to run the tires with the recommended manufacturer pressure (2.4 bar cold). Modern high performance tires can handle temperature quite well and it is just fine for 5-6 rounds in a small race track.

Personally, I trust much more Yamano than some random guy publishing BS articles on the internet. Besides, neither our cars are racing cars nor we are racing drivers . The whole idea is to just have some fun with our cars either on street daily or more rarely on race track

[Tor]

Well, I did as you and MaximeT said and relies on the temperatures from now on.
So I don't mind that 36 psi is higher than the 32-34 that random-Australian-Yokohama-guy recommends.

The car felt a whole lot better than the previous time where I ran 1.9 Bar cold pressure. I think I got lucky with the 2.05 Bar. It seems to be in the ballpark to keep the tire temperature even. The front left overheats a bit on the outside so I'll increase my camber from -2.5 to -2.8 and see what happens.

About swerving to heat up the tires, I read that it's not a good idea to do with absolutely cold tires since the sidewalls can flex. It's better to heat them up initially with braking. When you see professional drivers do it keep in mind they probably had warming blankets on the tires before starting to drive. There is lots of high-speed braking on the GP circuit, and combined with the cornering I would suspect they are up to temperature after 1 lap. Also keep in mind the swerving you see is during formation laps, the drivers try to keep the temperatures because they are driving slow.

If I started out with 2.4 Bar, I would probably end up with 2.8. That neither good for the handling nor for tire wear.

[Tor]

And the video from last Wednesday:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UyHZzEhnAw"]Nürburgring GP circuit - BMW hunting with GT86! - YouTube[/ame]

[Vin]

Happy hunting! Nice video and footwork! You also kept up with the 911 pretty well.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tor

About swerving to heat up the tires, I read that it's not a good idea to do with absolutely cold tires since the sidewalls can flex. It's better to heat them up initially with braking. When you see professional drivers do it keep in mind they probably had warming blankets on the tires before starting to drive. There is lots of high-speed braking on the GP circuit, and combined with the cornering I would suspect they are up to temperature after 1 lap. Also keep in mind the swerving you see is during formation laps, the drivers try to keep the temperatures because they are driving slow.

I don't think there is a better way to warm up tires than swerving. There are not using always warming blankets on the tires and besides the classic warm-up race cycle is not good only for the tires, but also for the engine. You want the engine and oil to warm a bit. I think it is harder to push drivers do a warm-up cycle in tourist fahren days and besides most of them would want to hammer the gas from lap 1.

Anyways, I don't want to disappoint you or something. You are doing good work and I wish I was also closer to the GP track. I am in the south Germany and more than 6 hours drive time. Have fun!

[Tor]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think it is harder to push drivers do a warm-up cycle in tourist fahren days and besides most of them would want to hammer the gas from lap 1.

^^THIS. There is no way to do a proper warm up lap. Look at the BMW ahead of me in the video above leaving the pitlane

If you take it slow, you are going to be overtaken left and right by an angry mob. Thereafter you are stuck behind them going slow in the corners on the subsequent "timed" laps.

I try to go 80-90% on the drive-out lap. So far my engine was always already warm from driving to get there and I let it idle for a few minutes before going out (e.g. last log oil temperature was 80 deg when going on track).

Anyways, I don't want to disappoint you or something. You are doing good work and I wish I was also closer to the GP track. I am in the south Germany and more than 6 hours drive time. Have fun!

Thank you and don't worry. I actually think your approach to tracking (just go out and have fun) is better than mine! Because of course, you are right, we are not professional race drivers.

But it just doesn't work for me like that. It been the same with every other hobby I've gotten into in the past. I set very high standards for myself and am kind of a perfectionist.

It's not about being better than other. It's an internal struggle to live up to what I believe should be my personal standard. E.g. I believe I should be able to do proper heal and toe and it bothers the sh!t out me that there are so many screw ups in the video above. However, it motivates me to improve and that's the fun part for me: Improvement. When I reach some plateau where further improvement requires a commitment that I can't (or won't) deliver then I lose interest and move on.

So now maybe you understand why I just can't set manufacturer recommended tire pressure and have fun with that. Also, it should explain why I don't mind giving up 2 laps for 1 with "perfect" tire pressure. Or why I don't mind tuning for track, although the car spends 95% of it's time on the street.

Hope to meet you sometime.

[ysu]

Wrt tyre pressures;

Last time on the track we were doing 20 min on / 20 min off the track.
I've checked the tyres after a session (starting from 35psi ~2.4bar) and they were over 40psi. I've let out 4psi, and the car behaved very nicely. The 20 min wait wasn't enough to completely cool the tyres down, so it worked out well. But I did not get any faster (although the traffic was always in the way, too)

[Tor]

Originally Posted by ysu

Wrt tyre pressures;

Last time on the track we were doing 20 min on / 20 min off the track.
I've checked the tyres after a session (starting from 35psi ~2.4bar) and they were over 40psi. I've let out 4psi, and the car behaved very nicely. The 20 min wait wasn't enough to completely cool the tyres down, so it worked out well. But I did not get any faster (although the traffic was always in the way, too)

This is how I did it when I had longer track sessions too. Like driving 1-hour sessions at Zolder. I would drive 3-4 laps, pit and adjust the tire pressures and go back out.

Judging from the temperature data it seems a pretty ballpark way to do it. You just got to know which approximate hot pressure to set.

Also, after you are done you can let the tire cool, then check the cold pressure and make a note for next time. That way next time you can set it directly before the first session.

[Tor]

Diaries of an ECU...
(Very boring read, but here for reference)


Stock
--------------------------------------------------------------
A00G
Notes: Logging done with A01G logtext file. Log may contain errors?
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/stock-a00g-map-34-deg-c-ambient

Wayno pure
--------------------------------------------------------------
Stg1 98 v108.2 A01G
Unchanged.
Notes:
Too lean. AFR 12.07 at 7.3k, however only briefly flashed.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/ww1082-stg-1

Stg1 100 v108.5.AU.Rich A01G
Unchanged.
Notes:
Too rich. +6.94 LTFT above 5k. Sluggish. Flashed twice due to wrong learning procedure, +7 to +9 LTFT above 5k second time. AFR 10.74 at 7.3k.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/030816

Tor modifications
--------------------------------------------------------------
v1.01:
Base:
Wayno Stg1 100 v108.5.Stg1.Rich A01G
Changes:
Base Timing B: 98 octane below 3600, 100 octane between 3600 and 5600. "101.5 octane" above 5600 and 0.5 load.
(P420) Cat Efficiency Below Threshold: "on".
Notes:
Never flashed.

v1.02:
Base:
Tor v1.01
Changes:
Base Timing B: -14.88 rev limit.
Desired Overrun Mass Airflow A and B: Restored to pre-MY16 values.
Notes:
Knock free. LTFT -2.4 below 5k, +0.58 above. -8.44 LTFT cruising (incorrectly prompted MAF scaling). AFR 11.25 at 7.3k.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-102-2

v1.03:
Base:
Tor v1.02
Changes:
MAF Sensor Scaling: Custom scale based on logs of v1.02 with vgi tool.
Base Timing B: Full Wayno 102 octane timing above 4000 rpm.
Notes:
FLKC, 5.8k and 1.2 load and 6.8k to redline 1.2+ load. LTFT above 5k +3.94. AFR 10.87 at 7.3k. Only flashed briefly.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/custom-maf-scale-13c-1021-pulls

v1.04:
Base:
Tor v1.04
Changes:
MAF Sensor Scaling: Custom scale based on logs of v1.03 with vgi tool.
Base Timing B: Reverted to v1.02 table.
Notes:
No FLKC. LTFT +3.94 above 5k. 11.07 AFR at 7.3k.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pulls

v1.05 with popping exhaust mod:
Flashed for 5 mins. Engine stalled on drive-away twice at idle with the clutch depressed. Reflashed directly to pure v.1.05 below:

v1.05: Currently flashed
Base:
Wayno Stg1 102 v111.Tor A01G
Changes:
Primary Open Loop Fueling: An invisible change was present. Copied over the table from Stg1 100 v108.5.Stg1.Rich, just to be safe side.
Base Timing B: -14.88 rev limit.
Desired Overrun Mass Airflow A and B: Restored to pre-MY16 values.
(P420) Cat Efficiency Below Threshold: "on".
Notes:
FLKC from 5000-7000 rpm, load 1.0 to 1.2. LTFT +2.4 above 5k, AFR 11.84 at 7.3k, however only flashed briefly.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-105-just-flashed

v1.06:
Base:
Tor v105 To be flashed...
Changes:
Launch Control Delta: 3100.
Flat-Foor Shift RPM Delta: 200, to activate hard 7400 rev limit with the clutch depressed (to remove the last excuse to blame my lousy downshifts on the tune).
Base Timing B: 100 octane below 5600. "101.5 octane" above 5600 and 0.5 load.
Notes: Will flash tomorrow.

Reason for changing Base Timing B:

I want to keep the bullet proof knock on track. I checked my last track-log with the modified v1.04 Base Timing B for +1 FLKC events and put it in an Excell sheet:



To ensure not having more severe FLCK in these areas, I restored timing in the corresponding fields in Base Timing B to see the difference (102 octane compared to the previous modified Timing table):



I assume the surrounding areas would knock too, but simply hadn't been hit. Removed timing in the surrounding fields, cleaned it up and ended up pretty much with the previously modified table, except with more timing below 3600 rpm. I don't know if this is considered blanket removal of timing, but I think the area that had been hit was pretty big and it would make more sense to remove it all to keep the changes smooth:



This is the same as above, but instead comparison between my modified table vs. the 100 octane timing table.

[Wayno]

It's not an invisible change. It's an intentional load scale fix.

You never flashed the Stg1.Rich scale? Sigh.

You need to WAIT to see where AFR lands before nuking the timing.
Any timing correction you see is irrelevant without fuel being correct first.
Notice I said TIMING CORRECTION, not KNOCK. The ECU pulls timing before any knock that has potential to cause damage happens.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-105-just...zoom=1311-1522

If you worry so much about timing then just run the regular 98 map until you have fuel sorted.
You will need to start from scratch when you blow away the cat and flash Stg2 anyway.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Wayno

It's not an invisible change. It's an intentional load scale fix.

I couldn't see any difference on the axis either, where can I see the change? I noticed IAT temp correction had a difference in the on one axis as a comparison.

You never flashed the Stg1.Rich scale? Sigh.

Yes, yes.. I did. In the "Tor 1.02". Which is the "Wayno Stg1 100 v108.5.Stg1.Rich A01G" with the following changes:

- Base Timing B: 98 octane below 3600, 100 octane between 3600 and 5600. "101.5 octane" above 5600 and 0.5 load.
- Base Timing B: -14.88 rev limit.
- Desired Overrun Mass Airflow A and B: Restored to pre-MY16 values.
- (P420) Cat Efficiency Below Threshold: "on".

Notes:
Knock free. LTFT -2.4 below 5k, +0.58 above. -8.44 LTFT cruising (incorrectly prompted MAF scaling). AFR 11.25 at 7.3k.
Log: http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-102-2

(Note, the reason for the "Tor" naming is just that it's easier for me to keep track of the changes and what was flashed, when).

You need to WAIT to see where AFR lands before nuking the timing.
Any timing correction you see is irrelevant without fuel being correct first.
Notice I said TIMING CORRECTION, not KNOCK. The ECU pulls timing before any knock that has potential to cause damage happens.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-105-just...zoom=1311-1522

If you worry so much about timing then just run the regular 98 map until you have fuel sorted.
You will need to start from scratch when you blow away the cat and flash Stg2 anyway.

I am not worried, as in afraid of damaging anything. You told me before that I will have to start over and for that reason, I just want something that runs well right now without having to spend too much time.

With "time" the main issue is ECU learning, as I don't drive the car that much between the days I go on the track. So flashing over and over to get it right is not such a good time for me right now. Hence, I would rather be a bit conservative so I don't have to flash again for a while.

I am also moving next month and the nearest gas station would be Aral instead of Shell. Aral has 102 octane.

My plans are then:
- Get the AFR right
- Let the ECU learn the tune properly
- Drive the car on track with Shell 100 octane

- Switch to Aral 102
- Let the ECU learn the new fuel properly
- Drive the car on track with Aral 102 octane

- Compare which fuel to use in the future when I remove the cat (November maybe).

This is what is flashed right now:

Wayno Stg1 102 v111.Tor A01G
Relevant changes:
- Primary Open Loop Fueling: Copied over the table from Stg1 100 v108.5.Stg1.Rich
- Base Timing B: 100 octane below 5600. "101.5 octane" above 5600 and 0.5 load.

Personal preference changes:
- Base Timing B: -14.88 rev limit.
- Desired Overrun Mass Airflow A and B: Restored to pre-MY16 values.
- (P420) Cat Efficiency Below Threshold: "on".
- Launch Control Delta: 3100.
- Flat-Foor Shift RPM Delta: 200, to activate hard 7400 rev limit with the clutch depressed.

(Timing compared to 100 octane):


I drove it 50-75 km yesterday after flashing. I did a few pulls in the end but messed up and accidently turned off the Tactix when I wanted to turn it on. So I logged a lot of irrelevant stuff. Anyway, one pull is in there with maybe only 30 km:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-106-lear...zoom=1633-1744

I will drive it 125 km today to Nürbungring GP circuit to do a few rounds. Hope that's enough learning.

As a side question, how is dyno tuning get around ECU learning?

Thanks a lot again Wayne!