Scion pure pricing.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by Quantum

Uh, yes they did. The BRZ pics w/o navigation is a Japanese base model. They are only bringing the Premium and Limited to the States.
-Hong

I thought I had read that, but couldn't remember where. Obviously neither price or equipment are set in stone. I think a premium BRZ with nav is priced right at 24k - 25k with the premium being ~2k higher. The scion will need to be cheaper by a margin that justifies no nav and the less attractive HVAC.

I still think scion wanted to have a decidedly cheaper offering than the BRZ in the us market since the target demographics for scion don't have 25K+ to spend on a car. I think they want the largest price gap (of all 3 us offerings) to be between the FRS and the BRZ premium

I'm thinking scion at 22.5k which is maybe a tad high, or Subaru may cut a few things from the premium. I don't see the BRZ LTD coming in above 27.5K.

Originally Posted by tripjammer

BRZ Limited (Nav, Dual HVAC with push start, Leather\Alcantara Heated seats, fogs, rear spoiler.)
$26k

I think that there is way more than a 2k value associated with what you've described above most manufacturers sell nav alone at 1k+ let alone everything else listed. I doubt Subaru will run 2 radios or HAVC's in the different trims.

[Marrk]

There is talk of a lightweight R version of the GT-86 for the UK (my only source for this is Car magazine again). It is alleged to be already in production. Has anyone else heard anything about this? If it's real, would such a car come to the USDM? If so, at what price?

Just dreamin' out loud here.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Quantum

Uh, yes they did. The BRZ pics w/o navigation is a Japanese base model. They are only bringing the Premium and Limited to the States.

Scion should be $21k or they're dead on arrival. I'm still leaning heavily towards a BRZ.

-Hong

OK so there is a BRZ base model in Japan. I did not know that.

Thanks!

So I will update my pricing again.

There is no way the FR-S is going to be $21k. You guys are dreaming and will be very disappointed. This car can't be cheaper than a Honda Civic Si or a base Genesis coupe. If it happens and its $21k. Nobody will ever buy the BRZ. They will just get the FR-S and swap parts like lights and dual zone HVAC to get to where they want their car to look like.

So (+-$750)

FR-S (CD radio)
$22.5k

BRZ Premium (HIDS, Navigation, Dual HVAC with push start)
$24k

BRZ Limited (Leather\Alcantara Heated seats, fogs, rear spoiler.)
$25.5k

Notice its a $1500 price difference between each model. Works...

[A Gomez]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

OK so there is a BRZ base model in Japan. I did not know that.

Thanks!

So I will update my pricing again.

There is no way the FR-S is going to be $21k. You guys are dreaming and will be very disappointed. This car can't be cheaper than a Honda Civic Si or a base Genesis coupe. If it happens and its $21k. Nobody will ever buy the BRZ. They will just get the FR-S and swap parts like lights and dual zone HVAC to get to where they want their car to look like.

So (+-$750)

FR-S (CD radio)
$22.5k

BRZ Premium (HIDS, Navigation, Dual HVAC with push start)
$24k

BRZ Limited (Leather\Alcantara Heated seats, fogs, rear spoiler.)
$25.5k

Notice its a $1500 price difference between each model. Works...

Sounds to me there could be more delta between FR-S and BRZ Premium for those things you have listed. I can see $2,000 to $2,500 and hope that pushes the price of FR-S down to $21.5K. Wishful thinking?

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by A Gomez

Sounds to me there could be more delta between FR-S and BRZ Premium for those things you have listed. I can see $2,000 to $2,500 and hope that pushes the price of FR-S down to $21.5K. Wishful thinking?

Anything is possible still. But I'm inclined to agree that sub 22k isn't gonna happen.

If anything the FR-S -> BRZ gap will be widened via higher BRZ Premium price.

I'd expect ~ 2k gap between models, but it is all guess work currently. I for one hope we get some new concrete details from Detroit.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

Anything is possible still. But I'm inclined to agree that sub 22k isn't gonna happen.

If anything the FR-S -> BRZ gap will be widened via higher BRZ Premium price.

I'd expect ~ 2k gap between models, but it is all guess work currently. I for one hope we get some new concrete details from Detroit.

I will go with a $1500 gap. Why do all y'all think the Subaru is going to be so expensive? Its got to be cheaper than the WRX. And if it is much more expensive than the FR-S...nobody will buy the BRZ.

HIDS and push start are not worth $2000 and leather trim alcantara seats and a rear wing and some fog lights are not worth $2000-$3000.

Subaru needs to think realistically...

I think it is a mistake for Subaru to make the navigation standard. Make it optional.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I will go with a $1500 gap. Why do all y'all think the Subaru is going to be so expensive? Its got to be cheaper than the WRX. And if it is much more expensive than the FR-S...nobody will buy the BRZ.

HIDS and push start are not worth $2000 and leather trim alcantara seats and a rear wing and some fog lights are not worth $2000-$3000.

Subaru needs to think realistically...

I think it is a mistake for Subaru to make the navigation standard. Make it optional.

I agree in regards to the nav, personally I think there is pressure from Toyota to make the BRZ cost more so as to not be as much of a direct competition.

I disagree about the value of the options, shop around on Subaru's current offerings. Leather, Fogs, + trim tidbits often add 2k + on their current line up. Nav adds 1k beyond that. I don't disagree that it is too much, but I'm just following the pattern.

I also disagree about coming in under the WRX being a priority. they simply aren't similar enough vehicles. Sure some people will be looking at both, but they are dissimilar enough that there shouldn't be too much cannibalism. It's like suggesting that Rav-4's and Camry's couldn't be in the same price range.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

But I still think Scion needs to modify their monospec ways and allow options in the FR-S. People do want the HIDS, dualzone AC with push start and the upgraded seats.

Some people... I would have no interest in HIDs, dualzone AC (in small two door coupe? pointless) pushbutton start (had one in my FD2 and it hardly added to the driving experience) and certainly wouldn't pay for them.
Depending on how good/bad the stock seats are, I could see some interest in upgraded to Recarro-esque seats, if there wasn't too much price gouging.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by A Gomez

Sounds to me there could be more delta between FR-S and BRZ Premium for those things you have listed. I can see $2,000 to $2,500 and hope that pushes the price of FR-S down to $21.5K. Wishful thinking?

Man I wish but the FR-S won't be cheaper than the Scion tC Release 7.

I still don't see subaru gouging us. They are pretty price competitive too. Especially since the cars are virtually the same. Why would you spend $24k on the BRZ premium vs $21.5k on the FR-S?

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

I agree in regards to the nav, personally I think there is pressure from Toyota to make the BRZ cost more so as to not be as much of a direct competition.

I disagree about the value of the options, shop around on Subaru's current offerings. Leather, Fogs, + trim tidbits often add 2k + on their current line up. Nav adds 1k beyond that. I don't disagree that it is too much, but I'm just following the pattern.

I also disagree about coming in under the WRX being a priority. they simply aren't similar enough vehicles. Sure some people will be looking at both, but they are dissimilar enough that there shouldn't be too much cannibalism. It's like suggesting that Rav-4's and Camry's couldn't be in the same price range.

I brought this up before in another thread.

2012 WRX for example...(Just because it is Subaru. I know the cars are not comparable) These prices don't include shipping. That's $750 more.

WRX $25,595

WRX Premium $28095 (adds sunroof, fogs, heated cloth seats and heated side mirrors)

WRX Limited $29095 (adds full leather seats with heat and HIDS for $1000 more!)

Navigation is a $1000 on most Subarus, including the newer type of navigation available on the new 2012 Impreza.

My argument is over the price difference between the BRZ premium and limited. There is no way it will be $3000 more. You are only getting leather trim alcantara heated seats and a wing. That's not $3k is stuff, more like $1000 at best.


So we will say the BRZ has the same navigation as the 2012 Impreza...so that is $1000. HIDS..$500....dualzone AC with proximity push start $500...So $2000 more than whatever the FR-S starts at. That still puts it in the $24k range and the Limited only adds leather\alcantara seats and a wing and fogs...so thats $1500 at best. So that puts it at $25.5k.


This allows scion to sell the FR-S at a cheap price of $22.5k

Realistically?

FR-S $22.5k
BRZ Premium $24.5K
BRZ Limited $25.5K


This is a best guess. I think we all all gonna be surprised.

Unless we got this all wrong and we really don't know what the options are going to be for the BRZ and FR-S.

I am all for the FR-S being $21k...but we got to be realistic.

Sure the WRX and BRZ are vastly different cars. But the BRZ and the FR-S are not. And they will both attract the same buyers.


Hey I am just trying to get Subaru to not screw up the pricing of the BRZ. I want to see them succeed too!

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Some people... I would have no interest in HIDs, dualzone AC (in small two door coupe? pointless) pushbutton start (had one in my FD2 and it hardly added to the driving experience) and certainly wouldn't pay for them.
Depending on how good/bad the stock seats are, I could see some interest in upgraded to Recarro-esque seats, if there wasn't too much price gouging.

I want the HIDS and you can't get the push start unless you get the dualzone ac. Some people just want a bit more in their cars.

That's why Scion should make it optional. So if you want it you can order it.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

So we will say the BRZ has the same navigation as the 2012 Impreza...so that is $1000. HIDS..$500....dualzone AC with proximity push start $500...So $2000 more than whatever the FR-S starts at. That still puts it in the $24k range and the Limited only adds leather\alcantara seats and a wing and fogs...so thats $1500 at best. So that puts it at $25.5k.


This allows scion to sell the FR-S at a cheap price of $22.5k

Realistically?

FR-S $22.5k
BRZ Premium $24.5K
BRZ Limited $25.5K

I buy that, though a quick math adjustment.


(assuming manual transmission, auto adds 1k)
FR-S $22.5k
BRZ Premium $24.5K
BRZ Limited $26k

seems very reasonable, and as far as I can see would be very comeptative pricing. at least, it would earn my business.
:happy0180:

[A Gomez]

$22.5K seems a right price based on all analysis done by people on this forum and is also right around the upper end of the price for which I would consider buying one of these cars. As much as I prefer Subaru as a brand, I probably will end up buying an FR-S as things like HID, nicer looking A/C, push button start and a nav are not important to me. I probably should still talk with a Subaru dealer to see if they are willing to work with me on the price.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I want the HIDS and you can't get the push start unless you get the dualzone ac. Some people just want a bit more in their cars.

That's why Scion should make it optional. So if you want it you can order it.

Gotcha, didn't realise the start button would be bundled with the AC.

In fairness I have paid zero attention to Scion's brand and setup before Toyota gave the FT86 to them, so this is an interesting thread for me - minus the whinging about salesman ;-)