FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Hm... you have a good point. Not bias or anything. If I was a Mustang enthusiast, I'll prob go w V8 instead of V6.

But price tag on V8 is pretty high. Base is around $23k vs GT is $33k right? iirc I remember reading BOSS 302 gonna be around $40k wasn't it?

But if you were a Mustang fan, could you stomach the shame of buying the V6, when you really want the V8?

Or would you just buy a Fiesta and save for a few years, or maybe a used V8, even an earlier generation?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

But if you were a Mustang fan, could you stomach the shame of buying the V6, when you really want the V8?

Or would you just buy a Fiesta and save for a few years, or maybe a used V8, even an earlier generation?

Hm... I think, I'll save myself few yrs and buy V8 used. V6 is fine, but if I'm true Mustang enthusiast, I prob want V8.

Again, this is my opinion and try not to be bias or anything.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

But if you were a Mustang fan, could you stomach the shame of buying the V6, when you really want the V8?

Or would you just buy a Fiesta and save for a few years, or maybe a used V8, even an earlier generation?

an informed consumer will know that the current gen v6 is faster than older gts. is also faster than the sti and close to the evo x and thats with a stupid speed govenor. im not saying ill buy a v6 but i am saying anything i consider will be up against some amazing deals

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Hm... I think, I'll save myself few yrs and buy V8 used. V6 is fine, but if I'm true Mustang enthusiast, I prob want V8.

Again, this is my opinion and try not to be bias or anything.

Now repeat this exercise with the 370Z, RX-8, Genesis Coupe, Miata.

Enthusiasts, as much as we say we are only about the performance, are actually pretty biased buyers.

Solid axle is a no-go for me, no matter how epic the new Boss is. Same goes with rotary power. Miata's I haven't fit in, don't like convertibles, or the car's looks.

Genesis coupe is just a new car that weighs the same as my weekend car. I don't like its looks, my opinion of Hyundai is forever ruined by their old cars (I'm old enough to remember when they were TERRIBLE, not just bad like they were 10 years ago), and won't handle like I want.

This leaves me with the Z. And it comes down to money, and my Toyota bias. This is where the 'Scion' brand comes in. I hate their marketing crap. But the 370Z is going to be probably over $10k more than the FT86 here in Canada. The 370Z starts at $40,898 CAD, which is $43,298.93 USD (not including ridiculous Canadian taxes!!!). Compare with a Scion tC which starts at $20,850 CAD ($22,074.00 USD). So even if the FT86 costs 50% more than a tC, it'll still be about $10k cheaper than a Z. Not going to happen.

Last option is used, the MR-S/2ZZGE swap I've mentioned. Basically Toyota's Miata competitor with similar cons. But a recent Toyota that will be closest to the FT86 dynamically and economy-wise.

Problem is it sends a negative message to Toyota if I don't buy the FT86 new, when they've finally produced a good-looking RWD sports car that promises good dynamics. Even if they did give to Scion.

Your logic may vary.

[n2oinferno]

Jay Leno bought a V6 Camaro and had it turbo'd rather than go straight for the V8. I'm pretty sure most people would classify him as a car enthusiast.

It comes down the the individual and what they want. If you're happy with the car you bought, that's all that should matter.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Jay Leno bought a V6 Camaro and had it turbo'd rather than go straight for the V8. I'm pretty sure most people would classify him as a car enthusiast.

It comes down the the individual and what they want. If you're happy with the car you bought, that's all that should matter.

Leno's not exactly constrained by price like the rest of us are. So price didn't factor, and neither did performance as he likely had his build for it planned out from the beginning.

This is a ridiculous example.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by midenginebias

Please don't misinterpret what I'm trying to convey. You're pointing out reliability from a transmission made in China, but that has nothing to do with the argument about what a potential buyer may want of a car depending on what his or her priorities are.

Actually it does...you know that entire reliability thing? Yeah, thats what made Japanese car's so popular over here in the first place. The 80's happened with Japanese cars. the 1980's-2004 ish happened with American Cars. Japan won.

Go buy the mustang then is all I have to say to suzy Q. For the price and its specs, something seems off, way off, on every American v6 pony car. Don't trust 'em, and never will. No seriously, the 90's happened with American car's. Even the corvette was not spared from Chevrolet's use of the cheapest plastic and worst wiring in the world.

Of course I could be just be hanging onto old stigma's.

@the weight figures: That is odd....funny fact, I chose the ford site to make sure I got the numbers right.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Leno's not exactly constrained by price like the rest of us are. So price didn't factor, and neither did performance as he likely had his build for it planned out from the beginning.

This is a ridiculous example.

Why is it ridiculous? He could buy anything he wanted, and he picked up the V6. He didn't go balls out and go for a million horsepower either. If I recall correctly, he was just north of 400. Hell, he could've bought the V8 and then turbo'd it if he wanted. As I said, it comes down to the individual, so you can't say an enthusiast wouldn't buy the V6.

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

@the weight figures: That is odd....funny fact, I chose the ford site to make sure I got the numbers right.

Probably had one of the ex-Jaguar guys doing data entry.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Why is it ridiculous? He could buy anything he wanted, and he picked up the V6. He didn't go balls out and go for a million horsepower either. If I recall correctly, he was just north of 400. Hell, he could've bought the V8 and then turbo'd it if he wanted. As I said, it comes down to the individual, so you can't say an enthusiast wouldn't buy the V6.



Probably had one of the Jaguar guys doing data entry.

You're bringing in a modified car (to the point where it made more power than the V8) and a dude with a pretty much unlimited budget, to a new car comparison.

Like I said, ridiculous. That's like me comparing my Supra (bought used, and modified naturally) to a new V6 Mustang, and griping at how the Mustang is way slower and cost about $12k more. Ridiculous.

[n2oinferno]

But nobody's griping about power. And maybe he did have plans to modify the car as he bought it, but how many enthusiasts that enjoy and have the means to modify their cars look at a new vehicle and think "well, I'm never going to touch this one." Hell, how many people on this board are thinking "I'm never doing anything at all to my new Toyota coupe?" Now how many people are going to save their pennies, dump the extra money from their paychecks, and modify their cars as much as they can financially afford? Probably a lot more than the previous.

There are plenty of people that have taken a car fresh off the showroom floor and had it modified before it's ever set foot in their garage. You made the argument that an enthusiast wouldn't buy a V6 if there was a V8 option. I'm just pointing out that at least one did. Having money doesn't make anyone any less of an enthusiast.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

Toyota dumbed this car down to appeal to a broader range of people. It could have been something great, but they decided to put a nice candy shell on average.

Competition in this price range that will SMOKE this car include:

Ford Mustang V6
Ford Focus ST (Turbo)
MazdaSpeed 3 (Turbo)
Subaru WRX (Turbo)


Plug $3000 into the latter 3 and you'll get a BEAST. Plug $3000 into the FR-S and you'll get a slightly faster fart box rwd Scion Tc.

I now really understand the issue here.....people don't want a GREAT car because it will price them out of the market.

Ohhhhhh well......looks like I'll be riding out the 350 until I can pay cash for a GTR

This post is a complete and utter EPIC FAIL!

Mustang V6 (slow as balls in the corners and will get destroyed)
Ford Focus ST Turbo (if it aint a Cosworth it's garbage)
MazdaSpeed3 (blows up when you push 300whp)
Subaru WRX (only formidable opponent on this list)

Second part of your Epic FAIL is that $3k into an FRS would demolish these cars. $3k into a Scion tC would walk all of the cars on the list you mentioned, highly doubt $3k into an FRS would result in anything less.

And $3k into a tC would also walk all over a 350z (I know, I owned and raced ALL of the cars on the list and I've owned both boosted tC and 350z).

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

But nobody's griping about power. And maybe he did have plans to modify the car as he bought it, but how many enthusiasts that enjoy and have the means to modify their cars look at a new vehicle and think "well, I'm never going to touch this one." Hell, how many people on this board are thinking "I'm never doing anything at all to my new Toyota coupe?" Now how many people are going to save their pennies, dump the extra money from their paychecks, and modify their cars as much as they can financially afford? Probably a lot more than the previous.

There are plenty of people that have taken a car fresh off the showroom floor and had it modified before it's ever set foot in their garage. You made the argument that an enthusiast wouldn't buy a V6 if there was a V8 option. I'm just pointing out that at least one did. Having money doesn't make anyone any less of an enthusiast.

The buying practices of an enthusiast that can afford to walk into a dealership and buy one of every single model, and then immediately modify them is not relevant.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

This post is a complete and utter EPIC FAIL!

Mustang V6 (slow as balls in the corners and will get destroyed)
Ford Focus ST Turbo (if it aint a Cosworth it's garbage)
MazdaSpeed3 (blows up when you push 300whp)
Subaru WRX (only formidable opponent on this list)

Second part of your Epic FAIL is that $3k into an FRS would demolish these cars. $3k into a Scion tC would walk all of the cars on the list you mentioned, highly doubt $3k into an FRS would result in anything less.

And $3k into a tC would also walk all over a 350z (I know, I owned and raced ALL of the cars on the list and I've owned both boosted tC and 350z).

yeah youre going to catch a lot of heat for this one. the v6 mustang that you call slow as balls is faster than the "only formidable opponent" and usually faster than the sti.
your anecdotal evidence isnt proof that a tc is better than anything. its a decent chassis but its not better than the new mustang. and whats with this 3k?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

Mustang V6 (slow as balls in the corners and will get destroyed).95g skidpad stock......2011 Scion Tc skidpad .84g
Ford Focus ST Turbo (if it aint a Cosworth it's garbage)This is so dumb I can't even respond
MazdaSpeed3 (blows up when you push 300whp) I see plenty of 300hp+ that haven't
Subaru WRX (only formidable opponent on this list)

Please explain to me how $3k into this or a Tc (.84 skidpad) would demolish a 300whp+ WRX. Someone has fanboism of the brain.

This.


The Mustang V6 would destroy a 2011 Scion tC at any track. Not sure how much $3k in a tC gets you in regards to engine and suspension mods, but I doubt it would get you close to the Mustang.

The Focus ST turbo might not be a Focus RS, but it sure as hell is damn nice. I wouldn't write it off that quickly.

Are you serious about the MS3? The MZR 2.3 DISI Turbo engine can easily take ~350-360 whp and ~350 wtq before an engine build. Just need a good tune. Above that sure, you will have to put some work into the engine.

Subaru WRX still represents one of the greatest bang for the bucks out there in terms of performance out of the box. WRX starts out at $25k. The FT-86 will start out similarly. Put in $3-4k into both of them and there is no way the FT-86 keeps up with the WRX.

Originally Posted by fatoni

yeah youre going to catch a lot of heat for this one. the v6 mustang that you call slow as balls is faster than the "only formidable opponent" and usually faster than the sti.
your anecdotal evidence isnt proof that a tc is better than anything. its a decent chassis but its not better than the new mustang. and whats with this 3k?

And this. Drago we all know you love the tC. But please don't let that cloud your judgment.