MotorTrend's Head-2-Head MX-5 MiataRF vs. Toyota86

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No time associated with the CR article, and the only thing I can find on the Sport Auto test is the forum post here which has zero information like if the compared laps were even done on the same day so as far as I'm concerned bunk, sorry. Unless I'm missing something?

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt >1s can be gained with a tire swap to a streetable tire, my MPSS are about 2s slower than my RE71R's around a 40-50s autox course without changing anything else.

The thing I doubt is "oh the Miata does so well because the Primacy's are shit *priustyrememes* and the Bridgestone were on the LFA so they must be great"

The CR article wasn't a laptime test, just objective handling tests. The improvement was significant, 2.6 mph faster in the double lane change (CR record) and 9 ft shorter in braking (2nd best ever). That's just from a tire change. Also I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Sport Auto track test for possibly being on different days. We don't know that for sure and regardless that'd invalidate pretty much every major track comparison there's ever been (or time attack for that matter).

Anyway enough bench racing for me. There's no way to tell how much faster the Potenza S001's would be (if at all) until someone actually tests it, and the 86 already set a faster laptime than the RF so it doesn't even really matter in this case. I just think Toyota/Subaru offering a set of max performance summer tires would satisfy a lot of people's curiosity whether they think it'd make a difference or not.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I just think Toyota/Subaru offering a set of max performance summer tires would satisfy a lot of people's curiosity whether they think it'd make a difference or not.

I mean... we have that test, it was worth 0.2s on Streets of Willow...

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I mean... we have that test, it was worth 0.2s on Streets of Willow...

Or 2 seconds depending on test I guess what I'm saying is if it was an OEM factory option we'd have many more data points (i.e., comparison tests) to draw from and probably argue about lol.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Or 2 seconds depending on test

Hehe on a track on the other side of the world with no knowledge of conditions differences between tests? Come on, you know that's not any better than my anecdotal estimate of 1s between Primacy and MPSS.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Hehe on a track on the other side of the world with no knowledge of conditions differences between tests? Come on, you know that's not any better than my anecdotal estimate of 1s between Primacy and MPSS.

If Sport Auto had a reputation for botching lap times I'd be inclined to dismiss the results but I haven't seen any odd results from any of their other track tests. Actually it seems their Nurburgring lap times are widely accepted even by OEM manufacturers.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

If Sport Auto had a reputation for botching lap times I'd be inclined to dismiss the results but I haven't seen any odd results from any of their other track tests. Actually it seems their Nurburgring lap times are widely accepted even by OEM manufacters.

You hold on to your two seconds then, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Wish I could have gotten two seconds out of switching to Max Performance summers over an 80s course with a bunch of straightaways, even my ZIISS weren't giving me that much over a ~50s autox. Which is consistent with R&T's experience on ZISS giving them 2s over 90s course...

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You hold on to your two seconds then, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Wish I could have gotten two seconds out of switching to Max Performance summers over an 80s course with a bunch of straightaways, even my ZIISS weren't giving me that much over a ~50s autox. Which is consistent with R&T's experience on ZISS giving them 2s over 90s course...

Haha I sleep just fine thanks I'm agnostic at best on this. If it's 0.2 sec faster or 2 seconds faster or somewhere in between, it doesn't really matter to me. It just seems disingenuous to accept the 0.2 sec result as gospel and wholly ignore the 2 sec result without explicit reason.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Haha I sleep just fine thanks I'm agnostic at best on this. If it's 0.2 sec faster or 2 seconds faster or somewhere in between, it doesn't really matter to me. It just seems disingenuous to accept the 0.2 sec result as gospel and wholly ignore the 2 sec result without explicit reason.

The explicit reason is that that level of speed differential is as good as what R&T and my personal experience garnered on a 200TW Extreme performance summer and Auto Sport made no claims that the two tires were tested back to back.

Hell, there's >3s between the BRZ Primacy/S004/RE11A video and the 86 vs MX-5 RF video on the same track with the same tires with the same driver. The '17 86 on Primacy was faster than the '14 BRZ on RE-11A's. I think we'd both agree that on the same day the '14 BRZ with RE11A's would be faster.

Sorry I just don't believe that a Max Performance Summer tire (~300TW) is worth 2s over a ~90s course when tested back to back with the Primacy and it's counter to everything I've figured out about tires. I know it's irrelevant but you know how it is.





Wish I had gotten video of my fast session at Laguna with the Primacy to compare to my ZIISS The only video I have is me being held up by a lot of pretty cars driven slowly and like 1 clean lap which is like 2:03

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The explicit reason is that that level of speed differential is as good as what R&T and my personal experience garnered on a 200TW Extreme performance summer and Auto Sport made no claims that the two tires were tested back to back.

That's a results-driven elimination process based on two other data points (one of which is yourself on a different class of tire and extrapolating from that result) I'm all for eliminating outliers but there simply isn't enough hard data for that just yet.

[Celica00]

I built both of these cars on their respective websites and made them similarly optioned out. The difference was the Miata being around $7500 more expensive. Even if the Miata is better, is it really $7500 better? That's a big hang up for me.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Celica00

I built both of these cars on their respective websites and made them similarly optioned out. The difference was the Miata being around $7500 more expensive. Even if the Miata is better, is it really $7500 better? That's a big hang up for me.

How much was the power retractable roof on the brz?

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by fatoni

How much was the power retractable roof on the brz?

What?

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

I always thought the miata was a cheap car and I remember when I found out how much it cost and thought to myself how I would never pay that money for it.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Celica00

What?

Exactly, I'm pretty sure you cannot "similarly option out" these two cars. I know which one I'd rather be found upside down in. In my BRZ it would be an EMT with a useful ride. In the MX5 it would be a different time if professional entirely with a vehicle not useful to me.