100,000 Units Annual Goal for BRZ/FR-S/86 Announced by President of Fuji Heavy Indust

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by eikond

Nobody ever said buying a new car was a good investment. Clearly you don't make money on cars (unless you happened to buy one of a very select few rare and collectible cars and keep it in pristine condition.. ie.. Shelby Cobra, etc. ).

But, I also don't think buying a new car is necessarily much worse than buying a used car. At least if you buy it right.. Let's assume this car is $25k new. I'll pay about $23.5. I'd guess that in 4 years it would be somewhere in the $12k to $14k range with approx 50k miles on it. Remeber that Subaru's hold very high resale values. So expect to have depreciation of anywhere from $9500 to $11500.. so let's call it $2500 per year.

Most used cars tend to depreciate somewhere in the ballpark of $1500 to $2000 per year for a 3-4 year old car. This depends very much on the age of the car and the number of miles of course...

The difference is that you typically have much more maintenance and repair costs on a used car. you could easily spend another $1000 per year on maintenance and repairs.

So in the end, I think you wind up spending a similar amount of money.. either you pay it in pure depreciation, or you pay it in a combination of depreciate and maintenance/repairs. Personally, I'd rather have the new car! I'd even be willing to pay a little more to have the new car over the used car.

I bought my RSX over 5 years ago with 69k miles at 50% of its new cost($11,500 cash) and now it sits at 110k. In those 5 years I spent around under 3k for just maintenance and one or two sensors. The same maintenance I would have to spend on a new car in 40k+ miles. I don't think what you are saying applies to all used cars especially a low mileage Japanese car like Honda/Toyota/Subaru.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I bought my RSX over 5 years ago with 69k miles at 50% of its new cost($11,500 cash) and now it sits at 110k. In those 5 years I spent around under 3k for just maintenance and one or two sensors. The same maintenance I would have to spend on a new car in 40k+ miles. I don't think what you are saying applies to all used cars especially a low mileage Japanese car like Honda/Toyota/Subaru.

It's definitely true the "your mileage may vary" on this. I have a 2000 Chevy Astro with 288K miles on it. I bought it in 2001 as an off-lease vehicle with 15,000 on it for $16K. At the time a new 2001 with the same configuration was $29K.

Other than standard maintenance I would have had to do on the 2001, its been in the shop twice for repairs totaling under $1K each visit. One happened before 100K miles and one happened at a little over 200K.

I had a similar experience with a 1989 Astro that went to 250K miles.

[switchlanez]

For me, I save more buying a new car. Firstly, when you make the huge decision of buying a new car, it involves a higher level of commitment and is more likely to be a keeper. I kept my 1st new car (FWD) for 5 years then suddenly I wanted a RWD car. I decided, "it's so stupid buying new if I can get used for much cheaper." So I got my RWD car. Then found minor things on it that irked me and decided "what the heck I didn't spend much getting this I'll just sell it and get a different car." On the next car I had a $3k engine rebuild done (half of what I paid for the car but I felt it needed it). After the build, I found more problems with the car. Oh well, sell it and get a different car. With this mindset, I went through 4 used sports cars in 2 years and probably lost more than if I were to get a new car.

The lesson I learned was if you're going to get a used car, make sure you get it from Carmax or spend $200 at an inspection shop that scrutinizes every little thing that you can't see unless you put it on a lift (signs of wreck, inevitable power steering issues not apparent on a test drive, fliud leaks that don't drip to the ground, compression/leakdown). The good shops usually operate in-house at legit used car dealerships with highly qualified mechanics. Also, sports cars will tend to have more hidden problems; if I ever buy a used car for the sake of saving money it'd be a car I'm less passionate about like a minivan or econocar. Psychologically (and based on my 1 new car in 5 years vs. 4 used cars in 2 years history), I'm likely to keep a new car longer and spend less in the long run. A new car just feels more special than a used car.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

It's definitely true the "your mileage may vary" on this. I have a 2000 Chevy Astro with 288K miles on it. I bought it in 2001 as an off-lease vehicle with 15,000 on it for $16K. At the time a new 2001 with the same configuration was $29K.

Other than standard maintenance I would have had to do on the 2001, its been in the shop twice for repairs totaling under $1K each visit. One happened before 100K miles and one happened at a little over 200K.

I had a similar experience with a 1989 Astro that went to 250K miles.

not bad, my dad got an astro brand new in 2000, drove everywhere when i was in BMX, we sold it in 2005 with 297,000 miles for 3k lol

never once changed the spark plugs, great vans, decent mileage

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by eikond

I want the car to be in that happy medium.. 6000 per year is perfect.. It's a small enough run to keep them from being on every street corner.. to still make it a novelty to see one. To keep the prices high for resale value because supply remains lower than demand. But, I certainly don't expect them to be sold in the sort of limited quantities that you see with exotics and other high priced cars.

Look at it this way. The car will be rarer in Ohio than it will be in CA, FL, TX and almost any state south of the snow belt. RWD will scare off many Ohioans even some who consider themselves car enthusiast. If the car they are buying is to be their play car AND their DD then they may opt for the security of FF and buy a Civic SI, Dodge Dart, Ford Focus, VW Golf, etc.

And if the car sells for north of 25K then they are going to be a hellalot rarer.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

not bad, my dad got an astro brand new in 2000, drove everywhere when i was in BMX, we sold it in 2005 with 297,000 miles for 3k lol

Yea, I plan on holding on to this one just to flip 300K if nothing else. The body is in great shape, there's a "racing" version of the engine in the Astro, I've considered swapping it out for the heck of it.

Honestly its one of the best vehicles Chevy built that everybody ignored. I know lots of them that have gone over 150 to 200K miles.

[alluringreality]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

The lesson I learned was if you're going to get a used car, make sure you get it from Carmax

That totally cracked me up. Based on clearbook sales and other used car price estimates I looked at, for 2-3 year old cars I was considering, I really have no idea why anyone would pay Carmax prices.

or spend $200 at an inspection shop that scrutinizes every little thing that you can't see unless you put it on a lift

I do agree a thorough inspection is worth considering, even if the car is still under factory warranty and has a clean Carfax. I just think it would be rather easy to save well over $1000, even after inspection, by buying used from a new car dealer for the cars I considered. When I bought my Camaro used 12 years ago the market was different, yet I get the impression that still today there are similar opportunities to save 10% or more off some of the ridiculous window sticker prices I've seen.

[Nafe]

You guys are complaining about the high spec BRZ being $30k on road?? Wow :/
Come to Australia. he high spec model will be $45-$50k on road...
The 86... You cars are expecting mid $20k on road? Low spec 86 over here $35-$40k on road.....
And our dollar is worth more than yours......

[Turbowned]

I think this car will be strictly purchased by enthusiasts around here; too many morons with the "FWD is better in the snow" stigma will be turned off to buying them in New England. Fine by me; they can buy tC's and I can wave at other owners and they might just "get it"!

I won't be waving at any convertible buyers when they come out. Made that mistake too many times with the MR2 Spyder crowd... Some old-ass lady in a Spyder was like "no, they only made the MR2 from 2000 and up"

[Allch Chcar]

I honestly don't see this selling even 30k in the US market as is. They'd need to stop being so tight about it and bring over the rest of the GT86 trims instead of just the trim they are using for the monospec Scion.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I honestly don't see this selling even 30k in the US market as is. They'd need to stop being so tight about it and bring over the rest of the GT86 trims instead of just the trim they are using for the monospec Scion.

I agree, it is a dumb move of Scion...no way will they sale that many cars at this price point.

[switchlanez]

You have to remember the stripped-down-upainted-bumpers version of the 86 in Japan equals about $25,8xx USD. That's about the price of an FR-S but far less equipped. From a global perspective, the FR-S price is not that bad. I think pumping a mass quantity in a fixed monospec is helping keep costs down.

[serialk11r]

Yea but the fact that they can provide a Scion FRS at ~25k here means they can give you a downgraded version for less. In America we pay a little bit of import tax on these cars, in Japan, they pay a whole crapload of other taxes that probably add up to more.

I would personally love 2 speaker stereo, no nav, no leather, no stainless steel shiny bits.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea but the fact that they can provide a Scion FRS at ~25k here means they can give you a downgraded version for less. In America we pay a little bit of import tax on these cars, in Japan, they pay a whole crapload of other taxes that probably add up to more.

I would personally love 2 speaker stereo, no nav, no leather, no stainless steel shiny bits.

x2 what Cereal said.

Toyota at least could offer the loaded GT86 here, then I could see sales being much better. But I want the lowest spec so I say, bring them all!

Everything after that depends on the sales after the first year. I hope it sells like Mustangs and the Camaro.