Video: FR-S Chases a 997 GT3 RS at Circuit of the Americas

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Sorry dude, I have no idea how you figure the title has anything to do with him not overheating. I could see your point if this was just a guy out for a Sunday drive. Sounds like a straw man argument there. I know some setups have ran into a heating issue (VMC car during the Drive interview), but this does not equate to every setup of F/I on every car driven on a track as you seem to imply in your original comment regarding F/I and track days.

Did you watch the video? The guy wasn't even close to pushing the car hard. You do realize that the stress on a car is much different in an advanced vs novice driver, right? I can't tell you how many Evo X mr novice trackers claimed no overheat issues until they started to get better. They all eventually overheated. Every one of them as they got better. You seem to be much more optimistic and impressionable by what a salesman tells you. I'm not. I'm not buying into anything until it's been proven. Why is that wrong? You're telling me I should take every product at face value without doing any research? I'm skeptical because of my past experiences. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I've got nothing to gain. Think about it. Could someone find a good way to run FI at the track? Maybe. I'm not going to believe it works until someone proves it.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

You think that somehow protects you from track day failures? You are sadly mistaken. I.e...Seen completely bone stock RX8 go flying into the gravel ditch during an AutoX event because the rear left hub completely separated on the car. You are not immune to track day failures just because your car is stock, bottom line. The ACR Viper is a purpose built track car. A Camaro Z/28? Yea need to see evidence that it's 100% track car and not built for the creature comforts of daily driving.

I NEVER said a stock car is immune to failure. Is it less likely to fail? Absolutely. Are you denying this? You failed to see my point. If the rear hub falls off it is covered under warranty on a camaro or vette. You are not immune to failure, but they will warranty it and fix for you. Name me one other manufacturer that will do that.

Do me a favor and actually read about the new z/28. It is a purpose built track car. No a/c, only one speaker for the seat belt chime, carpeting/insulation removed, naturally aspirated engine with LESS horsepower instead of using a supercharger like in the ZL1, but runs 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 around a track... gee.. I wonder why they got rid of the supercharger for the track version of the car)

I am intrigued by the z/28. Not buying one yet. Waiting for more information

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

So much Flawed logic with this thinking, sorry. That is a total fail of a statement. You can "build" a Giant killer from what was not otherwise thought to ever be a Giant Killer driven by a great driver. It's been done hundreds of times.




So, if you have a 500hp, 2400lb FR-S then is it a Giant Killer? At what point does it become a Giant Killer....lol. By who's standards does it not make sense to build a track car from an FR-S? Are you the defacto on what people should and should not do with their own car? Are you also telling of the future without evidence to back it up with the whole "you will have reliability issues". It's a Track car, reliability issues is ALWAYS an element. It comes with the territory and the risk is accepted by hard core track guys fighting for that extra mph through the Apex, for that extra .10th of a second off the lap time. 1-100's of a second can be the difference between a win and a loss. Hardcore track guys are looking for that point that takes them to the next level. If all you want to do is play it safe, not effect your mpg, don't have the track bug...then stay home. The last thing you should be doing though, is trying to tell someone they can't do something when it's been done a million times by even lesser than capable from conception cars. Ever seen a Scion tC walk away from a 600-800whp track prepped R35 GTR? I have. And the driver of the GTR has a class lap record in NASA for that track, so he sucks at driving is not an option.




If that was the Be-All-End-All solution, you wouldn't fine Switzer Performance, AMS and whomever making 1500+whp R35 GTR's, nor Underground racing building twin turbo kits for the Lambo Gallardo making 1500+whp. Both are super cars no? Far capable stock cars over a FR-S/BRZ right? Yet dudes want more from them no? The Mod bug exceeds cost and class of the car. Go buy another "stock" car? If you tinker with cars, you tinker with cars period.

Not sure why you're getting all riled up here. I said it makes no sense to do a giant killer build. I didn't say it couldn't be done. Yes, this is my opinion, based on my experience. I've seen plenty of good drivers that do hardcore track days (55 track days a year) who have not had a single issue/failure because they kept their car stock (mostly Porsches). Can failures still occur in stock form? Yes. Is it less likely? Yes. Is heavy modification worth the risk? My opinion is no. You say yes. I'm not out there to WIN a DE. Are you? I'm out there to have fun. You go tinker with your cars and build your giant killers. While you're busy tinkering, I'll be enjoying my car on the track. I'd rather have fun driving than trying to fix small issues and chasing after overheat issues constantly. Been there. Done that. Perhaps you have tons of money to burn away and never get back from modifying cars. Good for you. Keep the economy going. I'd rather keep the value of the car and not take a huge hit when it comes to resale. Everybody needs to learn their own way. I've never seen a 1500whp car at the track. There's lots of cars out here in NorCal and plenty of tracks. I wonder why I never see them there. You know a 1500whp car makes a horrible DE/track car, right? These monster track builds you talk about are shop cars being constantly worked on, which were made to coax money out of 'tinkerers' like you. Tracking is not a job/living for most of us. My opinion is that it's more worthwhile to have fun at the track and learn to get the most out of your car 'as is' than worry about a monster build so you can brag about passing a supposedly faster car.

My apologies to pcasso in advance, but answer this question for me: Where is his car right now? Is he enjoying it at the track? Some people are actually ok with the risks and failures because they want to be pioneers, doing something different. The reality is, a lot people say they're ok with it..... until 'it' happens.

[track_warrior]

While you keep arguing ill keep tracking and building my car. So much text and i did not even bother to read it since there is no sense into all of this.

[circuithero]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Gonna have to side with ketchup on this one. Although you're being sarcastic, you're right. Let's take the FRS/BRZ for what it is. It's not a giant killer. People on this forum love to think that it is. It's not. It never was meant to be. Nobody calls miata's giant killers, do they? Like it or not, a BRZ/FRS is in the same category as a miata. The whole culture of the import scene has been about building giant killers, so people love to see it. The reality just isn't there unless you're playing with smoke/mirrors, ie passing a less skilled driver (VERY easy to find)

A GT3 RS 4.0 makes 500hp and weighs 3000lbs. 350hp in a 2400lb car still doesn't get you the same power/weight ratio. If you pass one, it's because you were the better driver, not because you had a better/similarly capable car. Keep in mind you can get a 996 GT3 in the 50k range, and a 997.1 in the 70k range. I suppose if you dump enough money it would possible, but it makes no sense to do something like that. The car will be operating way past what it was designed for. You will have reliability issues. What happens all the time is someone has a monster build, the dyno is fantastic, and everyone applauds and gives each other high fives. A few weeks later, the owner is silent. No followup. Then word of a failure/mechanical issue occurs. The owner says no big deal, fixes it. Then the car is up for sale soon after. Happens EVERY time.



I wish you luck on this endeavor and eagerly await the results. I hope my predictions on the outcome are wrong. I've come to realize that if you're not happy with the stock power output on your car (exception of basic bolt-ons), the answer is to get a different car if you value reliability. It's very difficult to beat OEM engineering. I've learned the hard way.

These...are words of wisdom (although I don't agree with you on the Z28 for track work, but I would take it as a DD, in a heartbeat, or the Boss).

Orthojoe knows what hes talking about, sounds like he has been down the same path and learned from mistakes of "tuning" as I have. Here is the deal and no need to take it personally:

On the "giant killer":

Once you start boosting and adding a lot of power, you introduce a lot of heat and additional failure points. Argue all you want, and watch your videos all day but you have no idea how hard it is to get a rock solid, reliable car that can run non stop with double the power for 20 minutes, in the heat. For all the "videos" you have seen on youtube, megacubic dollars have gone into those boosted cars and often many, many long night of failed components, overheating, blown headgaskets, loose couplings...etc, etc. At the end of the day, you spend months, sometimes years and god knows how much $$$. Not worth it once you try it. Sure its different if you are a shop, or have sponsorships and a team behind you. Try doing it yourself, gets old, real fast. Go our for 3 laps, pass most people...aaaaand you overheat. Coming scratching head while everyone is out lapping, setting their cars up and having fun.

Case an point: the boosted miata community (NA/NB, not NC). Much like our cars, they handle boost pretty well. Also, many people get away with running a turbo kit with a bigger radiator on track. But you know what? Those guys aren't fast, so they are not on the throttle as much, not generating as much heat and not stressing components as much. Rule of thumb in that community, as you start approaching spec miata times (not that fast), things start breaking, manifold studs start coming loose, coolant reroute is needed or 4th bank goes boom...etc. Sure you can get it "semi-reliable" but it will cost you at least 5k in supporting mods and god knows how many man hours and it still won't be bulletproof. Pcasso 87 is obviously competent, hence he would be very likely to start running into a lot of problems that most casual HPDE guys would never see.

A lot of guys who go down that road (aka. Me, orthojoe, turbo miata guys); end up going back to a nearly stock car and just lapping, optimizing the set up, going into TT or W2W and most importantly become a much better driver and have way more fun doing it. Not watching on the sidelines trying to figure out why your meth kit failed, or your intercooler fell apart. Its too damn cost prohibitive and is not worth it for the imaginary "HPDE trophy". I know a guy who was selling his Boss 302 for an FRS, because consumables were too damn expensive and you soon realize that all that speed is relative. The fun comes from driving anything 10/10ths, the thrill of high closing speeds wears off quickly and then all you have is an empty wallet from spending 1K on brakes, tires and gas for one trackday.

That leads us to this giant killer concept. Sure, sure, I love rooting for the underdog. I have always rooted for the underdogs. But I recall to myself an old mag article, probably 7 years back now, it was Superstreet or Sport Compact Car or something of the like...they held a timeattack. Many baller cars, cubic dollars dropped, slicks, mega aero, twin turbo skylines, nsx's, supras... After all that, Paul Mumford (RIP) goes out in a stock Viper on hoosiers, destroys everyone by at least 5 seconds. BONE, STOCK, VIPER. Probably one of the lower hp cars there. So those videos you see, of the little old ae86 chasing down supercars, are just that, artificial stories and not real comparisons. You can drop 50k in your scion, I will buy a used 20k C5 Z06, put some tires on it and run with you all day long. Be more reliable too. End of story.

The porsche driver which SOME, NOT ALL of you guys are quick to judge, is a very humble guy btw who was out learning the lines with instruction and had nothing to prove. Was he slow? Yes. Equal driver's and you would see that GT3 maybe for a turn or two. No contest. Not to mention, and no disrespect meant, its a bit more hairy and difficult to manhandle that porshe to a quick time than a stock power, aero FRS. I used to think those passing montages, of some underdog stock miata on track passing vipers were cool...once your in the game long enough you realise its a silly pissing contest that proves absolutely nothing...

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by circuithero

You can drop 50k in your scion, I will buy a used 20k C5 Z06, put some tires on it and run with you all day long. Be more reliable too. End of story.

I will take your C5 Z06 and raise you a LS7 swapped FR-S

I do agree with you!! Coming from a muscle car myself, you are 100% correct. You want a track car to keep up with all those "big boy" track cars, just buy one ready to go. The more people seemed to mod their cars, the more they had issues. Just not worth it. Corvette is a GREAT platform! That would be a TON of fun to track by simply adding a good set of tires.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

My apologies to pcasso in advance, but answer this question for me: Where is his car right now? Is he enjoying it at the track? Some people are actually ok with the risks and failures because they want to be pioneers, doing something different. The reality is, a lot people say they're ok with it..... until 'it' happens.

Sorry mate, while I agreed with you in the beginning ... I think you lost the plot on this page and really just went for a cheap shot in the post above.

Pcasso87's car is indeed not running, but if I'm not mistaken it let go with fairly basic bolt ons and an Ecutek tune, not forced induction.

These cars have Subaru engines that in time will get built to be as reliable at 400hp as any Porsche engine (moreso than a Metzger). I know, because as you say "I've seen it time and time again". Of course that'll cost >$25k just for the engine build, but there's a lot of change left over compared to a GT3.

I think the fanbois overestimate this car all the time and aside from sports sedans and ricey time attack competitions, I'm not sure where you'd race such a beast. But to suggest it can't and won't be built is just a bit naive.

Being a blind ignorant snob is no better than being a blind ignorant fanboi.

[circuithero]

Found the story, it was Sport Compact Car; memory is hazy so some of my details were wrong. Anyways, here it is, a true grassroots hero and underdog [from Pulp Racing, NSX files]:

Last year, one of the Brembo guys was telling me that the editors of Sport Compact Car were looking for entries for the Ultimate Street Car Challenge. For those of you who do not read the magazine, it is geared more toward high performance import cars that go in a straight line. Anyways, the Brembo guy heard about the event from people at the magazine, and they mentioned they got a Viper driver entered to mix it up with the import guys. The Brembo guy asked, "Oh yeah, who did you get?". When the magazine guy replied, "Some guy named Mumford", the Brembo guy started cracking up laughing, implying, "You morons, if you want an "import car" to win your "import" event, you can't let MUMFORD enter in the event! He's gonna whup on everyone!". Anyways, we thought that would be the end of that, and they would boot Mumford out of the event, but apparently they are pretty sporting over there at Sport Compact Car, and decided to let Mumford run his Viper ACR street car that he has been whupping ass with on the race track. I guess maybe they thought it was a "dinosaur" car with a old-style, non-VTEC pushrod engine.

Sport Compact Car Magazine had a bunch of different categories to score the cars on, (some of them dopey) like price, skid pad, braking, burnouts, quarter mile, how comfortable the car is, and the all important lap time. For laptime, they used a variation of the "short course" at California Speedway, meaning no high banked turns, they just used the infield section.

Brett: How's it going so far?

PMUM: It's hot as hell and everybody is taking a break after one hot lap.

Brett: That sucks. How did you do?

PMUM: Well, before anybody went out for a run this guy that is driving the Skyline comes over for a little chat about the Viper. He tells me he's an IMSA driver, or used to be, and they hired him to drive the car. I told him "That doesn't seem fair". He said, �you could have hired me to drive your car". I told him "nah, I've done a couple weekend events, lucked out and won a trophy or two and just like to drive my own car". He said, "Well, good luck", and walked away.

Brett: (laughing) I know where this is going.

PMUM: Oh yeah, game on! So the Supra and this IMSA guy in the Skyline are going at it pretty hard. They keep exchanging fastest lap times until the Skyline comes in with a time that's about a tenth of a second faster than the Supra at about a 1:22 flat or just a shade under, AND it was his last run. I swear Brett, it looked like they had just won the Indianapolis 500. They were high-fivin', jumping all around. Now keep in mind, I haven't even put a wheel on the track yet.

Brett: This is getting better by the minute, so what did you lay on them?

PMUM: Well if that guy put down a lap time really close to 1:22 flat, like 1:21.9 what do I need to run to make a point? So everybody says, "OK, that guy really gave us a beat down".

Brett: Uh.....well if the Skyline guy laid down a smidge under 1:22, I would say a good "Mumford beat down" would be about a 1:19.5. That's usually what you do to the next fastest guy, 2 to 2.5 seconds. That would be the "end of story, thanks for playing."

PMUM: Ya' know, that's exactly the number I had in mind. A high 1:19 would pretty much let them know who's boss.

Brett: OK Mumford, what did you lay on them?

PMUM: Try a 1:16 flat on for size.

Brett: You ran a 1:16 flat? Holy shit! That's fucking hilarious! What was the mood in the Indy pit after that?

PMUM: OH, I'm not done, it gets better. I finish my ONE lap and I'm living the RV lifestyle, because it's so damn hot outside, and I hear a knock on the door. One of the USCC guys tells me that they think they have a timing issue.

Brett: What? That's jacked up!

PMUM: You'll like this. I asked him, "What was my lap time?" He told me they had two watches on me at a 1:16. I told "Them that sounds about right", knowing that is exactly what I ran. He said, "Paul, that's over 5 seconds faster than the second place guy, and he's no slouch."

Brett: He is now�

PMUM: Yeah right, but apparently they needed more than one lap and two watches. So I said to the guy, "Do you want me to go back out there and do it again, despite the fact that it's now 110 out there instead of 100?" He told me that I didn't have to if I didn't want to because it was so hot, and he didn't want me to have to beat-up my car any more. I told him, "No. I get the feeling you want me to run again". So I did. I told them to get the stop watches ready, and by this time everybody that owns a watch is waiting for me to run again.

Brett: (laughing) OK, I'm sitting down now.

PMUM: I laid the wood them with a little 1:15.6. Thank you very much.

Brett: That a boy! The import world knows who you are now, huh? Was that all the car had?

PMUM: Oh yeah, I could have run the rest of the day and probably not squeezed any more out of it, BUT as I pulled into the pit I told them I wanted to go once more because I thought I had another half second in there somewhere. They said, "That's enough Mumford. Park your car, it's over"

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by circuithero

These...are words of wisdom (although I don't agree with you on the Z28 for track work, but I would take it as a DD, in a heartbeat, or the Boss).

Orthojoe knows what hes talking about, sounds like he has been down the same path and learned from mistakes of "tuning" as I have. Here is the deal and no need to take it personally:

On the "giant killer":

Once you start boosting and adding a lot of power, you introduce a lot of heat and additional failure points. Argue all you want, and watch your videos all day but you have no idea how hard it is to get a rock solid, reliable car that can run non stop with double the power for 20 minutes, in the heat. For all the "videos" you have seen on youtube, megacubic dollars have gone into those boosted cars and often many, many long night of failed components, overheating, blown headgaskets, loose couplings...etc, etc. At the end of the day, you spend months, sometimes years and god knows how much $$$. Not worth it once you try it. Sure its different if you are a shop, or have sponsorships and a team behind you. Try doing it yourself, gets old, real fast. Go our for 3 laps, pass most people...aaaaand you overheat. Coming scratching head while everyone is out lapping, setting their cars up and having fun.

Case an point: the boosted miata community (NA/NB, not NC). Much like our cars, they handle boost pretty well. Also, many people get away with running a turbo kit with a bigger radiator on track. But you know what? Those guys aren't fast, so they are not on the throttle as much, not generating as much heat and not stressing components as much. Rule of thumb in that community, as you start approaching spec miata times (not that fast), things start breaking, manifold studs start coming loose, coolant reroute is needed or 4th bank goes boom...etc. Sure you can get it "semi-reliable" but it will cost you at least 5k in supporting mods and god knows how many man hours and it still won't be bulletproof. Pcasso 87 is obviously competent, hence he would be very likely to start running into a lot of problems that most casual HPDE guys would never see.

A lot of guys who go down that road (aka. Me, orthojoe, turbo miata guys); end up going back to a nearly stock car and just lapping, optimizing the set up, going into TT or W2W and most importantly become a much better driver and have way more fun doing it. Not watching on the sidelines trying to figure out why your meth kit failed, or your intercooler fell apart. Its too damn cost prohibitive and is not worth it for the imaginary "HPDE trophy". I know a guy who was selling his Boss 302 for an FRS, because consumables were too damn expensive and you soon realize that all that speed is relative. The fun comes from driving anything 10/10ths, the thrill of high closing speeds wears off quickly and then all you have is an empty wallet from spending 1K on brakes, tires and gas for one trackday.

That leads us to this giant killer concept. Sure, sure, I love rooting for the underdog. I have always rooted for the underdogs. But I recall to myself an old mag article, probably 7 years back now, it was Superstreet or Sport Compact Car or something of the like...they held a timeattack. Many baller cars, cubic dollars dropped, slicks, mega aero, twin turbo skylines, nsx's, supras... After all that, Paul Mumford (RIP) goes out in a stock Viper on hoosiers, destroys everyone by at least 5 seconds. BONE, STOCK, VIPER. Probably one of the lower hp cars there. So those videos you see, of the little old ae86 chasing down supercars, are just that, artificial stories and not real comparisons. You can drop 50k in your scion, I will buy a used 20k C5 Z06, put some tires on it and run with you all day long. Be more reliable too. End of story.

The porsche driver which SOME, NOT ALL of you guys are quick to judge, is a very humble guy btw who was out learning the lines with instruction and had nothing to prove. Was he slow? Yes. Equal driver's and you would see that GT3 maybe for a turn or two. No contest. Not to mention, and no disrespect meant, its a bit more hairy and difficult to manhandle that porshe to a quick time than a stock power, aero FRS. I used to think those passing montages, of some underdog stock miata on track passing vipers were cool...once your in the game long enough you realise its a silly pissing contest that proves absolutely nothing...

Thanks. Much more eloquently written than I am capable of. I agree with everything you said except for the new Z/28. You might be thinking about the camaro ZL1. The Z/28 is different.

They only announced the car this past weekend. Read up on it. I swear to you it is a track focused car, through and through.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by coyote

Sorry mate, while I agreed with you in the beginning ... I think you lost the plot on this page and really just went for a cheap shot in the post above.

Pcasso87's car is indeed not running, but if I'm not mistaken it let go with fairly basic bolt ons and an Ecutek tune, not forced induction.

I realized it was a cheap shot, which is why I apologized to the guy ahead of time. I don't wish any failure on anyone and respect the guy. Since his car is what started to debate, I had to use it as an example. Playing with the factory ECU is potentially playing with fire. IF the tune turns out to be the culprit, was the measly horsepower it gave him worth it? We're having problems with simple stuff now, what happens when we go 'giant killer'?

Originally Posted by coyote

But to suggest it can't and won't be built is just a bit naive.

Never said it can't or won't be built. Just said it makes no sense to. Happy to have someone prove me wrong.

[track_warrior]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

I realized it was a cheap shot, which is why I apologized to the guy ahead of time. I don't wish any failure on anyone and respect the guy. Since his car is what started to debate, I had to use it as an example. Playing with the factory ECU is potentially playing with fire. IF tune turns out to be the culprit, was the measly horsepower it gave him worth it? We're having problems with simple stuff now, what happens when we go 'giant killer'?



Never said it can't or won't be built. Just said it makes no sense to.

This car is fairly new and people are still trying to figure out the tuning and best setting for it. I know several S2K guys running superchargers without any issues at the track then again that platform has been around for some time now and the tuning has been perfected. Almost every month Toyobaru tuners are releasing updates of their tunes which means they have discovered new settings each month. Its only a matter before they get it just right and squeezing power becomes easier. My car will be back in my hands this week, and yes im still enjoying the track in my other cars.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

This car is fairly new and people are still trying to figure out the tuning and best setting for it. I know several S2K guys running superchargers without any issues at the track then again that platform has been around for some time now and the tuning has been perfected. Almost every month Toyobaru tuners are releasing updates of their tunes which means they have discovered new settings each month. Its only a matter before they get it just right and squeezing power becomes easier. My car will be back in my hands this week, and yes im still enjoying the track in my other cars.

I forgot you have other cars available to you. Good for you!

You've decided to be the pioneer and tester. Kudos to you. :happy0180:
I just don't have the stomach for that stuff anymore.

[Gixxersixxerman]

I'm not sure what the debate is here anymore.. In the video I saw.. On that perticular day a FRS was keeping a GT3 in its sights.. End of story.. I don't think I seen one post where anyone said a FRS would beat a GT3.. It looks to me a better driver in the FRS was keeping a less skilled driver honest.. I'm not a fast track guy.. In my FRS with a intake and exhaust I'm running 5 sec a lap slower then randy pobst.. But that day I beat a C6 Z06 a GT500, a couple C5, and numorous other cars I shouldn't have.. On those days I beat those cars around a track.. Now put someone better in those cars and the results would be different.. I don't see where anyone is saying otherwise.. I see you maybe... Maybe are a little biased as you own a Porsche.. Which to me are not worth the money.. I am not a fan.. Even if given to me besides the drive home it would sit until someone came and bought it.. I think my reason for the dislike is mainly the owners.. I have met one.. ONE.. That was a cool guy to talk to and not a complete douche.. And BTW in school I did drive a 944 turbo, back in 95-96.. I've embarrassed a caymen going down big bear.. The guy was talking all sorts of crap about my girly scion.. But he did give me a thumbs up when he got down to the bottom before he drove the other way.. Anyways.. It looks like a FRS kept a driver in a GT3 honest that day.. I don't see what the problem is

And as for the over heating problem..
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...light=Robispec

I think anyone would be hard pressed to overheat with this in the car

[aCab]

A) An FRS at Pcasso's level of prep won't be faster than a GT3 or Z06 given equal drivers and equal prep. Put pcasso in a GT3 or Z06 and give him a day or two and he should be faster if he can adapt.

B) Not to hit at pcassos driving, which is good, but I believe (as I'm sure he does) that there is a lot of room for improvement. He's said himself that he's still learning. For instance, I did a 2:02 at TWS my 3rd track day ever in a very, very lightly prepped s2000 (coilovers/wheels/tires). I think last I saw, he was at the 2:05 or 2:04 mark. Not saying that I'm a better driver by any means, just that with less driving experience, my less prepped car was running faster times.

C) The point about the supercharged car not overheating with a newb driver at a new track doesn't mean much to me. Even now, after having more experience on track, my first trip to a track is always 2-3 seconds off pace from what I do the next visit to the track. I'm fighting for fractions of a second at the tracks that I have been to before, and came close to winning a national championship with NASA this year, but I lost focus and f*cked up my session, so I do know what I am doing out there.

D) To the guy who says he has seen a Scion tC pull on an 800hp GTR - Would you be talking about Rados tC and Leh Keen behind the wheel of the TopSpeed GTR at Road Atlanta? I know Leh has the record for his TT class in that GTR, but I don't recall a time when both of those cars were on track at the same time. The only time Ive seen Rado there was at GTA last year, and if I recall correctly, Leh Keen wasn't nor the TopSpeed GTR were there as they were competing in One Lap of America during that time. Correct me if I am wrong, but that's the only tC I can think of that would could run faster times than that GTR. I was there competing at that event and set a track record for my class that weekend.

Can't wait to take my new FR-S out on track this weekend! First time having it out. Should have a good reference for times as we're going to a track I frequent a lot here in the Chicago area.