Video: FR-S Chases a 997 GT3 RS at Circuit of the Americas

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

The Vortech kit is only good for 250rwhp which would make all the difference for the 86 on a track. At only 7-8psi, its a good compromise for longevity, heat and power and would be my choice for a track car.

Scott

Maybe. I'm a bit wary about using foced induction in a car running 12.5:1 compression ratio. I'd want to see it track tested/proven from an independent source before pulling the trigger on something like that. Good thing guys like pcasso are around for that! .

Then there's the whole 'warranty' issue...

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Not disagreeing with you. But is it even worth mentioning when the ZR1 driver is THAT slow?

Only to the none-common sense having people. Can't cater to everyone.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Only to the none-common sense having people. Can't cater to everyone.

LOL!

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Maybe. I'm a bit wary about using foced induction in a car running 12.5:1 compression ratio. I'd want to see it track tested/proven from an independent source before pulling the trigger on something like that. Good thing guys like pcasso are around for that! .

Then there's the whole 'warranty' issue...

I found this the other day.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hddJJ59P9jc"]PhastekPerformance.com - Perrin Tuned Vortech Supercharged Scion FRS @ Texas World Speedway (TX2k13) - YouTube[/ame]

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

Your know it all attitude and sense of superiority will not get us anywhere since you only want to hear what you think is right, thank god you dont own a super car or it would be multiplied by 100. Im sorry to disappoint you but a well setup 20-30k car can easily surpass a more expensive factory track machine. A long time ago i proved my EVO X to be a worthy contender to more expensive Porsches and Ferraris at my local track. There was always excuses, and arguments, the i was only pushing it 20% when his lap times at the track proved otherwise, or the car was not set up correctly, its misfiring, etc. The car cost me 30k plus i dropped in another 30k and i was in a 60k 4 door saloon passing your average 100k-200k supercar's at the track. I still stand with my argument that 350 HP in a 2400 pound car is a lot, it would have an amazing power to weight ratio. Right now my FR-S has the balance, grip, and braking, it only needs the power to be a good contender to a GT-3. At harris hill road GT-3's are lapping 1:24-1:25's with good drivers and 1:26-1:29 with your average joe drivers. H2R does not have many long straights and is very technical, its a track about momentum and my car laps a 1:27.1 with R comps.

I'm the one that knows it all & has a superior attitude?? I was the one that admits that my humble POS car cannot hang with an ACR.

Just because you were able to chase & keep up on the tight corners (with these particular GT3s) doesn't mean that your FR-S can out brake/corner a properly driven GT3 (with race tires no less). That is my argument. Nothing more.

[track_warrior]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I found this the other day.

Looks fast, the driver is a bit novice but the power the car makes is awesome. I lapped a 2:04.7 in the same track with my setup, a supercharger would have helped in the long ass straight as well as powering away from corners.

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I'm the one that knows it all & has a superior attitude?? I was the one that admits that my humble POS car cannot hang with an ACR.

Just because you were able to chase & keep up on the tight corners (with these particular GT3s) doesn't mean that your FR-S can out brake/corner a properly driven GT3 (with race tires no less). That is my argument. Nothing more.

Sure buddy what ever you say.....


I guess you may be right then a 25k car will never beat a GT-3 no matter how much money you dump into it just because the other car is a Porsche, and this will just be a little cheap scion.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I found this the other day.

Problem is the title on the video: First time on track EVER.

A newb not running into any overheat issues is not a data point. (please nobody post that vid as a FRS hunting a GTR.... please...)

[track_warrior]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Problem is the title on the video: First time on track EVER.

A newb not running into any overheat issues is not a data point. (please nobody post that vid as a FRS hunting a GTR.... please...)

Oil cooler, vented hood, thermostat, and maybe even a ticker core radiator might take care of any over heating issues. I still want FI since i am being left behind in the straights in faster tracks.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

I guess you may be right then a 25k car will never beat a GT-3 no matter how much money you dump into it just because the other car is a Porsche, and this will just be a little cheap scion.

Gonna have to side with ketchup on this one. Although you're being sarcastic, you're right. Let's take the FRS/BRZ for what it is. It's not a giant killer. People on this forum love to think that it is. It's not. It never was meant to be. Nobody calls miata's giant killers, do they? Like it or not, a BRZ/FRS is in the same category as a miata. The whole culture of the import scene has been about building giant killers, so people love to see it. The reality just isn't there unless you're playing with smoke/mirrors, ie passing a less skilled driver (VERY easy to find)

A GT3 RS 4.0 makes 500hp and weighs 3000lbs. 350hp in a 2400lb car still doesn't get you the same power/weight ratio. If you pass one, it's because you were the better driver, not because you had a better/similarly capable car. Keep in mind you can get a 996 GT3 in the 50k range, and a 997.1 in the 70k range. I suppose if you dump enough money it would possible, but it makes no sense to do something like that. The car will be operating way past what it was designed for. You will have reliability issues. What happens all the time is someone has a monster build, the dyno is fantastic, and everyone applauds and gives each other high fives. A few weeks later, the owner is silent. No followup. Then word of a failure/mechanical issue occurs. The owner says no big deal, fixes it. Then the car is up for sale soon after. Happens EVERY time.

Originally Posted by pcasso87

Oil cooler, vented hood, thermostat, and maybe even a ticker core radiator might take care of any over heating issues. I still want FI since i am being left behind in the straights in faster tracks.

I wish you luck on this endeavor and eagerly await the results. I hope my predictions on the outcome are wrong. I've come to realize that if you're not happy with the stock power output on your car (exception of basic bolt-ons), the answer is to get a different car if you value reliability. It's very difficult to beat OEM engineering. I've learned the hard way.

[heeltoe86]

I'm siding with Orthojoe on this. If you want to beat fast cars, just start with a fast car itself. I always see issues with highly modified cars on track. The more they're modded the higher the risk of failure no matter how safe the tune or the engine build. Building a car to go fast on a track instead of the reliability that the OEMs developed, you end up counting the hours of run time rather than miles in terms of rebuild/maintenance. Overall I'd just like to drive on the track in a fast car with little to no reliability issue. Which I have as one of my part time jobs in Vegas.

I also would like to see the results with FI on these cars driven by pcasso which would be a really good data point IMHO.

[orthojoe]

If you want a true giant killer that will be 'cheap', take a look at the new 2014 Camaro Z/28. I'm not kidding. Hell has frozen over because I never thought I'd consider an american car before. Will run a circuit just as fast as the GT3RS for less than 1/2 the cost (close to 1/3). Purpose built for the track. Ceramic brakes standard. Weight loss program (still heavy, though), NA motor (500hp), factory racing suspension, factory cooling system, everything you need for the track. To top it off, they flat out state that they will honor the warranty even with TRACK use. Hard to beat that.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Problem is the title on the video: First time on track EVER.

A newb not running into any overheat issues is not a data point. (please nobody post that vid as a FRS hunting a GTR.... please...)

Sorry dude, I have no idea how you figure the title has anything to do with him not overheating. I could see your point if this was just a guy out for a Sunday drive. Sounds like a straw man argument there. I know some setups have ran into a heating issue (VMC car during the Drive interview), but this does not equate to every setup of F/I on every car driven on a track as you seem to imply in your original comment regarding F/I and track days.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Gonna have to side with ketchup on this one. Although you're being sarcastic, you're right. Let's take the FRS/BRZ for what it is. It's not a giant killer.

So much Flawed logic with this thinking, sorry. That is a total fail of a statement. You can "build" a Giant killer from what was not otherwise thought to ever be a Giant Killer driven by a great driver. It's been done hundreds of times.

Originally Posted by orthojoe

A GT3 RS 4.0 makes 500hp and weighs 3000lbs. 350hp in a 2400lb car still doesn't get you the same power/weight ratio. If you pass one, it's because you were the better driver, not because you had a better/similarly capable car. Keep in mind you can get a 996 GT3 in the 50k range, and a 997.1 in the 70k range. I suppose if you dump enough money it would possible, but it makes no sense to do something like that. The car will be operating way past what it was designed for. You will have reliability issues. What happens all the time is someone has a monster build, the dyno is fantastic, and everyone applauds and gives each other high fives. A few weeks later, the owner is silent. No followup. Then word of a failure/mechanical issue occurs. The owner says no big deal, fixes it. Then the car is up for sale soon after. Happens EVERY time.

So, if you have a 500hp, 2400lb FR-S then is it a Giant Killer? At what point does it become a Giant Killer....lol. By who's standards does it not make sense to build a track car from an FR-S? Are you the defacto on what people should and should not do with their own car? Are you also telling of the future without evidence to back it up with the whole "you will have reliability issues". It's a Track car, reliability issues is ALWAYS an element. It comes with the territory and the risk is accepted by hard core track guys fighting for that extra mph through the Apex, for that extra .10th of a second off the lap time. 1-100's of a second can be the difference between a win and a loss. Hardcore track guys are looking for that point that takes them to the next level. If all you want to do is play it safe, not effect your mpg, don't have the track bug...then stay home. The last thing you should be doing though, is trying to tell someone they can't do something when it's been done a million times by even lesser than capable from conception cars. Ever seen a Scion tC walk away from a 600-800whp track prepped R35 GTR? I have. And the driver of the GTR has a class lap record in NASA for that track, so he sucks at driving is not an option.

Originally Posted by orthojoe

I wish you luck on this endeavor and eagerly await the results. I hope my predictions on the outcome are wrong. I've come to realize that if you're not happy with the stock power output on your car (exception of basic bolt-ons), the answer is to get a different car if you value reliability. It's very difficult to beat OEM engineering. I've learned the hard way.

If that was the Be-All-End-All solution, you wouldn't fine Switzer Performance, AMS and whomever making 1500+whp R35 GTR's, nor Underground racing building twin turbo kits for the Lambo Gallardo making 1500+whp. Both are super cars no? Far capable stock cars over a FR-S/BRZ right? Yet dudes want more from them no? The Mod bug exceeds cost and class of the car. Go buy another "stock" car? If you tinker with cars, you tinker with cars period.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

If you want a true giant killer that will be 'cheap', take a look at the new 2014 Camaro Z/28. I'm not kidding. Hell has frozen over because I never thought I'd consider an american car before. Will run a circuit just as fast as the GT3RS for less than 1/2 the cost (close to 1/3). Purpose built for the track. Ceramic brakes standard. Weight loss program (still heavy, though), NA motor (500hp), factory racing suspension, factory cooling system, everything you need for the track. To top it off, they flat out state that they will honor the warranty even with TRACK use. Hard to beat that.

You think that somehow protects you from track day failures? You are sadly mistaken. I.e...Seen completely bone stock RX8 go flying into the gravel ditch during an AutoX event because the rear left hub completely separated on the car. You are not immune to track day failures just because your car is stock, bottom line. The ACR Viper is a purpose built track car. A Camaro Z/28? Yea need to see evidence that it's 100% track car and not built for the creature comforts of daily driving.