A pessimist's take on sales success / failure

[yarik83]

Originally Posted by Aki

I'm not sure you understand how the industry works. There's a 0% chance the FT86 will replace the Scion TC. It came out in 2010, and it needs to have at least a 4-5 year cycle. They're not going to kill it midway. It's the exact opposite; Toyota is hoping the FT86 will boost Scion as a brand, and in turn boost sales of the xA, xB, Tc etc.

I beg to differ there mate. Toyota is EXACTLY known to pull out quite unpredictably because they love to cut their losses and close avenues that can not generate money.

Case in point. Toyota pulled out of world rally competition, formula 1 and pretty much every motor sport as a manufacturer. Currently they are a supplier which is easier on them. Toyota killed off MR2 not once but twice, they killed off celicas, they killed off supras,

Honestly put there is little difference to continue tc line or replace it with a frs line. Most toyota cars share parts. You can walk into an autozone and request ohh what is a good one... harmonic balancer pulley and they will give you one or order one. Look up the part number and see that it also fits like 19 different other toyota models of different years.

Toyota is one of those manufacturers that have embedded itself into consumers and has a huge customer loyalty. Loyalty that came at a very high cost of removing sport cars out of their line up. So removing cars for benefit of the company is really not that big of a deal for them.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by yarik83

Toyota killed off MR2 not once but twice

They killed it, but only once. They stopped selling it in the US, but it wasn't killed until 2007. They continued making the 2nd gen through 99, then the 3rd gen from 99-07.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

2002-2005 were bad times too, it may not have affected you but it affected others. Maybe the statistics don't show it to a certain degree either but it wasn't a great economy.

I'm not sure if you mean that Miatas were being had for 20k or being sold for 25k. I do know they were selling for 21k with options or get near private sale dollar on your trade-in.

People have caused a buzz about Toyota helping make a sports car. Get this though this is Subaru's engineering piece, they borrowed DI technology from Toyota just like other manufactures borrow their hybrid system. Yamaha has worked with a multitude of companies too, not just Toyota. So in essence this is Subaru's sports car with borrowed technology.

Toyota is the marketer, designer, and re-badger. I'm not trying to start a war but it is fact. This venture is kinda like the "you can give a man a fish but if you teach him how to fish he'll have plenty to eat for a life time" saying. Well Subaru gave Toyota a fish and during the process Subaru learned how to fish more efficiently for a life time. At the end of it Toyota still doesn't know how to build a proper sports car. -Also meaning now they'll have higher torque fuel efficient AWD cars like the new 2012 DI Impreza.

You know sales might work out because Toyota/Scion are not alone in this fight. The BRZ, STI, and future race program will surely help boost sales for all makes.

i dont care about any of these internet wars and im sure they will happen. trying to be civil, i disagree to the fact that toyota doesnt know how to build sports cars. they havent in years true but i could argue the same for subaru. its not hard to say that a 3300 lb awd sedan is not a sports car. depending on definitions, subaru has never built a car as sporty as cars that would come towards the bottom of toyotas sports car lineage. to each his own i guess

[yarik83]

I stand corrected* my comment related to US market.

And now to address above comment.

Subaru may not build cars that would qualify for "kick in the pants" but when they do they deliver. Out of the box WRX and WRX STI is one nasty beast that is as synonymous with off road motor sports as peanut butter is to jelly.
All of their other cars are not sport built except for Impreza line up.

For average granny they have the impreza. For everyone else they have 5 WRX models each with own tweaks.

Toyota on the other hand have made it rather clear that toyota and motor sports have stopped mixing in mid to late 90's. Their rally cars never really made it to usa. Their only sport car was so obscenely overpriced that it might as well have been priced a million dollars because with that kind of exclusivity one wonders what low mileage mark 4 will sell for on collector's market in 50 years time. The MR2 did not quite work out. I love that car but it was too impractical and also cost quite a lot. And then other cars were girlified by EPA, FDOT, NHSA regulations that by time they hit streets here in US they were a sad underperforming twin sibling to what was sold overseas.

And then Toyota stopped producing sport cars altogether at least here in US. They figured if they invested into Lexus they could cater to rich folks and for the rest of us they had their current line up.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by yarik83

I beg to differ there mate. Toyota is EXACTLY known to pull out quite unpredictably because they love to cut their losses and close avenues that can not generate money.

Case in point. Toyota pulled out of world rally competition, formula 1 and pretty much every motor sport as a manufacturer. Currently they are a supplier which is easier on them. Toyota killed off MR2 not once but twice, they killed off celicas, they killed off supras,

Pull out unpredictably? You still don't understand what I'm saying.

It is rare for an automaker to kill a model midcycle. You're saying they'll kill off the TC after a 2-3 year cycle to be replaced by the FT86, which is ridiculous. The Celica ran a 7-year cycle when it was killed off (and dismally tapering sales), hardly unpredictable or abrupt. Supra had a whopping 9-year cycle. Formula 1 and Motorsports don't even have 4-5-year model cycles, so it's not remotely relevant.

Plus, the notion of the FT86 replacing the Scion TC doesn't even make sense from a manufacturing perspective. If that were the case Scion TC manufacturing facilities would get retooled, production lines switched to the FT86. The FT86 is made in Subaru plants, so production will be moving along concurrently.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

They killed it, but only once. They stopped selling it in the US, but it wasn't killed until 2007. They continued making the 2nd gen through 99, then the 3rd gen from 99-07.

The supra and the mr2 are gonna come back. Toyota is just waiting for the right economical environment.

Honda will bring back the integra...and maybe the s2000 one day along with the nsx.
Oh and Honda bring back the prelude and the legend coupe!
And Nissan will bring back the silvia!

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Aki

Pull out unpredictably? You still don't understand what I'm saying.

It is rare for an automaker to kill a model midcycle. You're saying they'll kill off the TC after a 2-3 year cycle to be replaced by the FT86, which is ridiculous. The Celica ran a 7-year cycle when it was killed off (and dismally tapering sales), hardly unpredictable or abrupt. Supra had a whopping 9-year cycle. Formula 1 and Motorsports don't even have 4-5-year model cycles, so it's not remotely relevant.

Plus, the notion of the FT86 replacing the Scion TC doesn't even make sense from a manufacturing perspective. If that were the case Scion TC manufacturing facilities would get retooled, production lines switched to the FT86. The FT86 is made in Subaru plants, so production will be moving along concurrently.

Scion actually needs more cars...they need the frs!
The tC and the frs are totally different cars.

Right now scion only has 4 cars. They need the frs and then a frs sports sedan version...and maybe a cheap version of the Lexus ct. Scion needs a hybrid..

[tripjammer]

The reason why Toyota quit building sports cars is because they got priced out of the market...but they will come back....the ft86 is the start. What you see here will be the underpinnings of the next Lexus IS. Also Toyota could build a supra off this platform too.

The wrx and sti are awd sports sedans. They are totally different from what the FT-86 is.

Also all subies are AWD...the brz will be RWD...something different for subaru.
Do you really think they wanted it to be RWD? That was a Toyota decision, along with the styling and weight. I think it is more like 50/50 in this project. But it don't matter it's one bad ass car.

I don't think anybody has ever made a FR flat four car that was as badass looking and weigh less than 2700 pounds...and did not even use exotic materials to get it that light!

Hopefully this will push other manufacturers to build lightweight relatively high performance cars.

[Major Clod]

It makes sense that these manufacturers begin to bring back their famous sports cars once their target market reaches an age of having money. Build on nostalgia etc... No point in making a supra if the only people who get excited about it can't afford it - but if those people are now 10-20 years older and have money to burn - well it will surely get their interest.

[Buggy51]

Originally Posted by Major Clod

It makes sense that these manufacturers begin to bring back their famous sports cars once their target market reaches an age of having money. Build on nostalgia etc... No point in making a supra if the only people who get excited about it can't afford it - but if those people are now 10-20 years older and have money to burn - well it will surely get their interest.

Though... I don't think there's that many people with money to burn :P

Although... if they do, I would be happy to take donations as well...

[tripjammer]

Yeah a supra is coming! They just got to make the price right. Use the ft86 platform and put in a flat 6 and twin turbo it in the high-spec model. And they back. Frs low mid $20k...supra mid 30k...twin turbo low 40k...right in line with the 370z base and nismo..

Honda needs to bring back the s2000 too
Nissan the silva...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Yeah a supra is coming! They just got to make the price right. Use the ft86 platform and put in a flat 6 and twin turbo it in the high-spec model. And they back. Frs low mid $20k...supra mid 30k...twin turbo low 40k...right in line with the 370z base and nismo..

Honda needs to bring back the s2000 too
Nissan the silva...

Sure it will.. the 2067 Supra! Wait for it!

Seriously this has been rumors since what, the early 2000s?

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Buggy51]

>_> I'm still waiting for my flying car...

[Giccin]

Lol@ at all these supra comments.

Of course it'd be awesome if the car came back... but look at the state of the world economy. Unless you're the son/daughter of some big ass company, mine your own oil, or have a very comfortable job in a company you've been working for for several years. The likelihood of people purchasing a sports car nowadays is slim. Especially with all this.. "Save the Planet. Be Eco. Use electric. Use your poop to make diesel fuel. Need 80mpg hummer" stuff going on. I think it will be hard to sell a sports car at... 30-40k. Well not crazy hard. But rather hard.