2018 BRZ Orders Open. tS and 50th Anniversary Due April

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by why?

The next gen STi is going to be nothing like the current one. There are far too many rumors to really guess what it will be, but odds are it will be a hybrid of some sort just because the entire market is going in that direction. Also odds are high the price is going up by quite a bit.

I love the do-it-all nature of the STI, I just cant get over the terrible EJ motor currently. There is a good chance I will want the next generation. The question here is more about the TS, if i buy it knowing Ill only have it for 2 years max will I lose a ton of equity.

Cars like the RS and Type R even the outdated current STI are looking promising in the resale department due to the limited nature. Just wondering if people expected this to do the same.

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Always a risk, but I doubt you will get a turbo BRZ in 2 years and definitely not at the same price point.

I meant a WRX STI. I should have clarified, I have already resigned to the fact that the BRZ is what it is.

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by Veloist

My BRZ is not my daily driver but I've had tons of fun in it, and the FR-S/86/BRZ in general is a very meaningful car to me. I've driven it about 7000 miles and just got it appraised since I'll be selling it very soon since I'll be getting the tS.

Anyways, the dealership (different from the one I work for) offered me 77% of MSRP. If I take into account the purchase price of my car, my depreciation for the 7,000 miles and 2.5 years of ownership is 16%. In other words it's still worth 83% of the price I bought it for.

When I was testing waters back in August, I got 3 offers for $700 below what I bought the car for (not including tax).

Point I'm trying to make, is low-mileage, clean examples will hold their value better and I can see this going on for a long time. Back in 2013 my dad sold our 1-Year Old FR-S for $200 below its MSRP which was what he bought it for. (It did have only 500 miles)

This is encouraging, do you attribute the more stable value of your car to the hyperblue color? Or has resale been better in later models? My subaru dealer literally would not touch the BRZ when i wanted to trade it in, they actually refused haha. "we have enough trouble getting rid of our own BRZs". This was years ago now.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

How do we expect this car to hold it's value? I don't want to lose a ton of money with the possibility of the next generation Sti dropping in 2 years... Thoughts???

Originally Posted by new2subaru

That's still quite a loss when you add it all up, no? Taxes paid were lost too. What was the total loss after selling including taxes paid?

I agree a clean car will hold value better, but most new cars will depreciate fairly quickly.

Originally Posted by deejaylew

Not necessarily true, I rarely lose big money on a car purchase. My first BRZ was the only time I felt like i legitimately got destroyed on the resale.

Sounds like the "huge depreciation" everyone is seeing is with the 86 is basically "normal" at least according to Edmunds:

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sounds like the "huge depreciation" everyone is seeing is with the 86 is basically "normal" at least according to Edmunds:

And every single person that brags about how they got it new for $5,000 below invoice or picked up that $12,000 steal of a used car are also reducing the used value by a little bit more.

[dowroa]

(All discussion centers around less than 60k miles)

This car, in decent condition, will stop around 10-11k.

Anything that isn't a MY13 is going for around 15-18k.

Special versions are going for 18-20k.

Used BRZ PPs are going for 23-26k.

A non-special car almost never holds value. The WRXes from 2003-2007 have hit bottom.

You can decrease your loss by buying cars full through the 5-7 year deprecation cycle with low miles.

Or, buy a truck.

For the tS specifically, since this is what this thread is about, I think it has a decent chance with LOW miles and COMPLETELY STOCK to retain good value past 5-years in the in upper teens to mid-20s.

Time will tell, but I would not be betting on anything better than that. The car isn't that special and limited numbers isn't going to help it THAT much. See the other special editions current pricing for reference.

[Veloist]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

This is encouraging, do you attribute the more stable value of your car to the hyperblue color? Or has resale been better in later models? My subaru dealer literally would not touch the BRZ when i wanted to trade it in, they actually refused haha. "we have enough trouble getting rid of our own BRZs". This was years ago now.

My car is garage kept and never driven in the rain and I make sure to put that in my ad haha. Also helps to average less than 3,000 miles a year and keep it looking clean. The HyperBlue color is one thing but I think the primary factor that influences the higher resale value is that none of the other used BRZ's at the time (even at dealerships) were used in the same purpose I used mine. Even at the local meets, I haven't really met a BRZ/FR-S owner who bought their car to drive 3-4 times a month.

If the tS didn't come out, I would've kept my HyperBlue for as long as possible, and I bought it with the intention of doing that.

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sounds like the "huge depreciation" everyone is seeing is with the 86 is basically "normal" at least according to Edmunds:

Cars depreciating is normal what I saw from the BRZ was not normal. People who weren't around when the car came out don't remember this was a HOT car. Dealers were selling for msrp or msrp+ 2-3k. after a year and a half the used market was flooded with lower priced FRS'. Those of us who wanted out early got shafted. So no.. what I'm referring to is not normal. After 10+ car purchases I can say that confidently.

People think the used price gradually went to 18k... it was not a slow descent for us impatient folks who bought in early.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

Cars depreciating is normal what I saw from the BRZ was not normal. People who weren't around when the car came out don't remember this was a HOT car. Dealers were selling for msrp or msrp+ 2-3k. after a year and a half the used market was flooded with lower priced FRS'. Those of us who wanted out early got shafted. So no.. what I'm referring to is not normal. After 10+ car purchases I can say that confidently.

People think the used price gradually went to 18k... it was not a slow descent for us impatient folks who bought in early.

I am not sure I understand this comment.

The 2013 MSRP for the base Premium was: $25,495

Source:
- https://www.autotrader.com/Subaru/BRZ/2013

Currently, for the MY13 with 60k is $15,463 (which is the worse, low selling example, currently)

Source:
- https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/instantMarketValue.action

Therefore, that is a 0.3935% depreciation in 5 years, which isn't bad, by any standard.

So, all other irrelevant points aside (buying a new car with mark-ups is always dumb and happens -- see 2003 Evo for a worse example), the car has maintained value well for a non-truck.

It will also hit rock bottom for GOOD examples under 100k miles around 10-11k at 8-9 years at 0.6078% depreciation -- much better than many other more expensive car values.

What am I missing?

You can't compare people who buy on mark-up. That is always irrelevant.

Or, are you stating the fall wasn't gradual? That is never the case when readily available cars are introduced to the market. Only limited availability cars will maintain in the short (< 3 years) run or HIGHLY desirable cars.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

Cars depreciating is normal what I saw from the BRZ was not normal. People who weren't around when the car came out don't remember this was a HOT car. Dealers were selling for msrp or msrp+ 2-3k. after a year and a half the used market was flooded with lower priced FRS'. Those of us who wanted out early got shafted. So no.. what I'm referring to is not normal. After 10+ car purchases I can say that confidently.

People think the used price gradually went to 18k... it was not a slow descent for us impatient folks who bought in early.

The only way you got shafted was if you paid above sticker in the first place. That was the shafting not the resale value. Did you really expect to get more than the rest of those "lower priced" FRS that were inevitably to follow?
Yes, you as an individual may have had greater deprecation than you wanted but that does not mean the car was any worse than most.

[dowroa]

For the record, STi, when first introduced, had a HUGE rebound period where the cars had fallen to 16-18k for GOOD examples 7-8 years.

Economy factors included, the price has rebounded. However, you can still find STis for good used prices.

WRX prices, however, are much lower.

RS prices, which is what I would compare a base model BRZ to, have hit floor at 6-7k range... but they are mostly 100k+ miles. The good ones are still around 10k, which is about the going price for an older, functional, lower milage and HP sports car (see Miata for an example).

Yes, there was a sales high followed by the flood, followed by the initial loss for those jumping in quick and jumping out quick.

However, those are always the idi... whales that the new car market is looking for.

Try lightly used sometime, in the 3-5 year range max. If you can afford that, you can afford to own and maintain the car. Else, look at cars you can afford.

Never buy new unless there is an OVERWHELMINGLY good reason, or you are fine with this loss (which you may be at times, and is fine).

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by dowroa

I am not sure I understand this comment.

The 2013 MSRP for the base Premium was: $25,495

Source:
- https://www.autotrader.com/Subaru/BRZ/2013

Currently, for the MY13 with 60k is $15,463 (which is the worse, low selling example, currently)

Source:
- https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/instantMarketValue.action

Therefore, that is a 0.3935% depreciation in 5 years, which isn't bad, by any standard.

So, all other irrelevant points aside (buying a new car with mark-ups is always dumb and happens -- see 2003 Evo for a worse example), the car has maintained value well for a non-truck.

It will also hit rock bottom for GOOD examples under 100k miles around 10-11k at 8-9 years at 0.6078% depreciation -- much better than many other more expensive car values.

What am I missing?

You can't compare people who buy on mark-up. That is always irrelevant.

Or, are you stating the fall wasn't gradual? That is never the case when readily available cars are introduced to the market. Only limited availability cars will maintain in the short (< 3 years) run or HIGHLY desirable cars.

My entire point of asking about the TS resale was the fact it was limited availability. This is a special case where a car MIGHT not depreciate heavily in 2 years. I wont sit here and try to make the 2013 brz depreciation curve look "normal". Simple as that, the BRZ took a huge hit because of the influx of FRS' for sale 2 years after launch. Long term depreciation doesn't matter to me, it just doesn't apply to the situation I originally described.

Please read before commenting, you painted the situation and what I was asking completely wrong.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

My entire point of asking about the TS resale was the fact it was limited availability. This is a special case where a car MIGHT not depreciate heavily in 2 years. I wont sit here and try to make the 2013 brz depreciation curve look "normal". Simple as that, the BRZ took a huge hit because of the influx of FRS' for sale 2 years after launch. Long term depreciation doesn't matter to me, it just doesn't apply to the situation I originally described.

Please read before commenting, you painted the situation and what I was asking completely wrong.

Any difference in deprecation will probably be minimal at best if you base it on the previous special editions. If worried about this subject you are best to stay away from new cars. They always depreciate and it can be unpredictable. Your 2017 WRX could plummet in value when they release the next gen on the new platform. Or it could skyrocket if the new version sucks. You just can't predict what will go up or down no matter what logic you try to apply.

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The only way you got shafted was if you paid above sticker in the first place. That was the shafting not the resale value. Did you really expect to get more than the rest of those "lower priced" FRS that were inevitably to follow?
Yes, you as an individual may have had greater deprecation than you wanted but that does not mean the car was any worse than most.

I paid MSRP, sold for about 10k less from what i remember. Thats a significant % loss and what does the fact that the going rate for a BRZ was MSRP+ change? Expectations was a ~5k loss. That's just not what happened. If you're insinuating negligence for buying a brz early that's ok I'm not perfect.

I expected subaru resale value, many of us did. We were wrong, not sure why everything I say seems to be controversial?