6MT vs Paddle shiftting Auto

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Lol speaking of which, do the mustangs still have that old horse and cart suspension? Like the GT500 still?

Yes, STILL live rear axle.


Hey its fun in the 86, I gotta admit, to a certain level. It really does teach you to be more...precise...in your inputs. Unforgiving is an understatement.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by xantonin

Come on now. This is a forum, we're meant to have discussions here. Even if they have been repeated.

That said, I want to re-iterate the fun and skill factor. Tuned automatics are certainly better than humans at the drag strip. But if you took 10 random people and had them all do drag races in the same car, how much of a difference would they all have?

To exclude launching, assume they all did 30-120 MPH. Would there even be a difference? After all, they are just flooring it and holding the wheel straight.



Now take a manual car. Surely the driver with the best time is very skilled at shifting. He may not beat the automatic, but I can guarantee you two things: 1. He had more fun. 2. He displayed more talent.

And I second the notion of man-machine connection. There's something about driving a car for a while and having its clutch pressure, travel distance, engagement and friction zone, all connected to you by muscle memory, which is special in a really cheesy sort of way.

i think drag racing is stupid and not having a shifter will actually allow you to focus on driving. no more wishing you had three hands in the infield. you can now left foot brake whenever you need to. i dont know why people insist that shifting is a significant part of driving

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Fortunate Few

i messed up an bought a paddle shifter rx8. 6MT FTW

thats an actual automatic transmission and the torque converter sucks so you loose power and it cant handle the speeds the engine was designed to work at. i dont think thats a valid comparison.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think drag racing is stupid and not having a shifter will actually allow you to focus on driving. no more wishing you had three hands in the infield. you can now left foot brake whenever you need to. i dont know why people insist that shifting is a significant part of driving

You need 3 hands to drive with a manual?

Here's a hint: Put down the phone/drink/cheesburger/makeup/magazine and you can drive just fine with 2.

If anything automatics make is EASIER for people to NOT focus on driving.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

You need 3 hands to drive with a manual?

Here's a hint: Put down the phone/drink/cheesburger/makeup/magazine and you can drive just fine with 2.

If anything automatics make is EASIER for people to NOT focus on driving.

there are plenty of times on a road course where my hands and feet just arent fast enough so i am forced to 2nd gear turn in 3rd. im not talking about the mundane task of driving im talking about this connection jazz people are ranting about. imo shifting takes away from it. im not saying i want something like that in this car but it has merit

[xantonin]

Shifting in cars and bicycles are very much the same. And I hate to say it but I know a ton of people that never shift when they ride their bikes. Some either don't know what the gears are for on their bike, and leave it, or they pick one and never change it.

Even more sad is that there are a bunch of bicycles being made and used in the Phoenix area that only come with one gear, because they know most people don't care, don't know, or would rather save money with a bike with one gear.

I've seen too many people with multiple speed bikes leaving a stop light and putting their whole weight on one pedal to move it forward, instead of just shifting down...

I ... uhh.... forgot the point I was going to make. I'm tired. Maybe I was going to say that most people are just lazy by using that as an example. Yeah. That must have been it.

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

You need 3 hands to drive with a manual?

Here's a hint: Put down the phone/drink/cheesburger/makeup/magazine and you can drive just fine with 2.

If anything automatics make is EASIER for people to NOT focus on driving.

I agree completely, this is an excellent point.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by fatoni

...connection jazz people are ranting about. imo shifting takes away from it.

You feel not shifting your own car has you more connected to it?

99% of the enthusiast world disagrees with you bud. I think you're what we'd consider an 'exception' to the rule, and a minority at that.

I've owned both an Automatic sports car (my mk3) and a manual (the AE86) and I would NEVER go back to the automatic. Infact, I sold the mk3 because it WAS an automatic. The manual keeps you more involved in your car, makes you concentrate harder, and develops you better as a driver.

there are plenty of times on a road course where my hands and feet just arent fast enough so i am forced to 2nd gear turn in 3rd

So, learn to be quicker? If other people can do it, so can you.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by xantonin

Shifting in cars and bicycles are very much the same. And I hate to say it but I know a ton of people that never shift when they ride their bikes. Some either don't know what the gears are for on their bike, and leave it, or they pick one and never change it.

Even more sad is that there are a bunch of bicycles being made and used in the Phoenix area that only come with one gear, because they know most people don't care, don't know, or would rather save money with a bike with one gear.

I've seen too many people with multiple speed bikes leaving a stop light and putting their whole weight on one pedal to move it forward, instead of just shifting down...

I ... uhh.... forgot the point I was going to make. I'm tired. Maybe I was going to say that most people are just lazy by using that as an example. Yeah. That must have been it.


I agree completely, this is an excellent point.

So ... are you saying it's pointless for the bike makers to keep making gears on bikes since no one cares? doesn't pay attention, it cost more money? They don't feel like it.... or even they are lazy Or are you saying you feel sad that people don't care to learn to shift the gears? or they don't want to fork out the money for a nice bike with many gears.

In terms of relating this to the FRS and this topic. Don't forget we represent the 10% of people who know what this car is about, what it's for and why it's made that way. The other 30% hasn't gotten into the 10%, but the other 60% is not going to care, like the bike. It gets them to point A-B in a pretty car, who gives a crap about the gears and all that, it's Pretty that's good enough. Toyota sells another.

Shrug...like the population with those bike, the 60% of buyers are going to be like "ask me if I give a @#$%"


And... Drag racing is for Pony Cars....Who the heck drags or wants to drag with a FRS totally defeats the purpose.

[xantonin]

I don't understand how anyone can feel a connection to driving when all they do is steer and push the gas.... Maybe even the brake pedal...

I think the only time I'll give up on manuals is when they can make CVTs better. IMO the perfect CVT would be connected precisely to the foot pressure. Flooring it = redline. Halfway pushing it = halfway RPMs... etc... From what I've seen with CVTs they aren't anything like that.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by xantonin

I don't understand how anyone can feel a connection to driving when all they do is steer and push the gas.... Maybe even the brake pedal...

I think the only time I'll give up on manuals is when they can make CVTs better. IMO the perfect CVT would be connected precisely to the foot pressure. Flooring it = redline. Halfway pushing it = halfway RPMs... etc... From what I've seen with CVTs they aren't anything like that.

No No Xan that's the point I'm trying to make 60% of people wont give a !@#$ about car connection, It's a Car it's not a pet who needs a connection. By connection did you mean I can connect my IPOD? Phone? Bluetooth? It's Point A-B, who give a !@#$ about shifting and pushing/heel toe. That's what 60% is going to say.

Lol We're in the 10% that's not part of that 60.

and no no they aren't and I'm not sure if ...I would like them like that. Then agian I dunno I've only driven 2 CVT cars as a test.

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by Zaku

So ... are you saying it's pointless for the bike makers to keep making gears on bikes since no one cares? doesn't pay attention, it cost more money? They don't feel like it.... or even they are lazy Or are you saying you feel sad that people don't care to learn to shift the gears? or they don't want to fork out the money for a nice bike with many gears.

I'm not saying it's pointless for the manufacturers at all. By this comparison, you are the one saying it's pointless and that manufacturers will stop making them.

I'm saying that I'm sad by how many people don't know how to drive a bicycle, or even understand a clutch, let alone driving manual car.

I'm also saying that the majority of Americans in my area at least, are extremely lazy that a manufacturer has noticed it and even decided to make simple bikes to profit out of it.

In terms of relating this to the FRS and this topic. Don't forget we represent the 10% of people who know what this car is about, what it's for and why it's made that way. The other 30% hasn't gotten into the 10%, but the other 60% is not going to care, like the bike. It gets them to point A-B in a pretty car, who gives a crap about the gears and all that, it's Pretty that's good enough. Toyota sells another.

Shrug...like the population with those bike, the 60% of buyers are going to be like "ask me if I give a @#$%"

Did you know that 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

And I agree. I'm fine with being the minority and the majority buying the automatic version of this car. I said it before; I'm happy for our automatic brethren. The more Toyota sells the better.

But I will get defensive when those automatic drivers start criticizing my choice or make up facts about manuals and automatics.

And... Drag racing is for Pony Cars....Who the heck drags or wants to drag with a FRS totally defeats the purpose.

That isn't really the point... And I'm sure someone out there will boost their FR-S so that they can drag race it. You shouldn't really claim that whatever someone decides to do with their car defeats the purpose. After all, the purpose is whatever they want it to be for.

Also, I used drag racing because it's the single sport where automatics are, without a doubt, superior to manuals. There's no way a human can shift and engage a clutch at the speed a finely tuned transmission can. That's like comparing a computer to the human mind for processing 1000 math equations.

But the fact still stands, any human that can shift the best, or process 1000 math equations in their head the quickest, is certainly something to respect.

And that, my friends, is what manuals are all about.

[whaap]

There's nnothing magical about being able to shift gears. When I was learning only the very few wealthy could afford a car with an automatic transmission. Manual was the norm. A lot of you think you're pretty good with a a manual but I wonder how many of you could drive a manual without synchromesh!! I've driven many "fun" cars with manual transmissions: Mustang, CRX, Corvette, Porsche 911 and my first Miata. My present Miata is an automatic.

The beauty of paddle shifters is you can control the gear you're in just like the manual boys can when you want to do some spirited driving and you can also flip it in drive and enjoy a laid back commute when appropriate. It's sort-of like having the best of both worlds.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by whaap

There's nnothing magical about being able to shift gears. When I was learning only the very few wealthy could afford a car with an automatic transmission. Manual was the norm. A lot of you think you're pretty good with a a manual but I wonder how many of you could drive a manual without synchromesh!! I've driven many "fun" cars with manual transmissions: Mustang, CRX, Corvette, Porsche 911 and my first Miata. My present Miata is an automatic.

The beauty of paddle shifters is you can control the gear you're in just like the manual boys can when you want to do some spirited driving and you can also flip it in drive and enjoy a laid back commute when appropriate.

A voice of wisdom, Thank you !

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by whaap

There's nnothing magical about being able to shift gears. When I was learning only the very few wealthy could afford a car with an automatic transmission. Manual was the norm. A lot of you think you're pretty good with a a manual but I wonder how many of you could drive a manual without synchromesh!! I've driven many "fun" cars with manual transmissions: Mustang, CRX, Corvette, Porsche 911 and my first Miata. My present Miata is an automatic.

This is true. And I have a lot of respect for anyone that can drive manuals without a synchromesh. Double clutching FTW?

The beauty of paddle shifters is you can control the gear you're in just like the manual boys can when you want to do some spirited driving and you can also flip it in drive and enjoy a laid back commute when appropriate. It's sort-of like having the best of both worlds.

I guess I'm just more old school...