Live Pics of Subaru Boxer Sports Car Architecture (BRZ) from Geneva! + Press Release

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Vivio was just like evo style

I should put an * on each of my posts that means 'barring any obscure JDM cars that Ichi will point out to make me wrong, grrr...' heh.

Let me clarify (without even checking to see if the Vivio is/was EJ/FB-powered). When Subaru references their 'signature' Symmetrical AWD they seem to be referring to the system I am usually talking about, axles are equal from side to side (the symmetry part) and sticking out of the front of a EJ's and now FB's transmission (EB's as well?), center diff hidden from view so no front driveshaft.

And wasn't the Vivio technically a Suzuki? Or am I thinking of another small Subaru?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I should put an * on each of my posts that means 'barring any obscure JDM cars that Ichi will point out to make me wrong, grrr...' heh.

Let me clarify (without even checking to see if the Vivio is/was EJ/FB-powered). When Subaru references their 'signature' Symmetrical AWD they seem to be referring to the system I am usually talking about, axles are equal from side to side (the symmetry part) and sticking out of the front of a EJ's and now FB's transmission (EB's as well?), center diff hidden from view so no front driveshaft.

And wasn't the Vivio technically a Suzuki? Or am I thinking of another small Subaru?

You're thinking different one & I'm just teasing ya. I know what you mean

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Evolution of cars should match what people actually want to drive.

There is no market for a slow pretty econobox any more, and this will be priced between the base Mustang and base Z, and needs to perform somewhere between them to sell.

Like 1% of the people who buy this car will give a rat's ass about its aledged heritage or potential as a drift car. The rest are going to want to go reasonably fast in a straight line.

Damn jordo, you whip that base mustang out like its a trophy wife or something.

The base mustang and the FT-86 are engineered towards two different means. The entire basis of the FT-86 is a balanced, light weight, RWD, 4 cyl aimed at cornering performance and drifting. There's no debating that fact, it came straight from the engineers themselves. You could hardly say the same for the Mustang, especially the god awful base model. Two different cars aimed at two different target markets.

If Toyota wanted to compete with the mustang and Z, they'd bring out a model that would compete with said models that would actually make sense of comparison, like I unno....a Supra successor? Not a car barely larger than an AE86.

Mustang and Z are both companies respective "full production" flagship sports cars, and an entry level compact coupe is supposed to compete? Fyi, price is still up for debate, there's nothing official.

[Aki]

Well I think the base Mustang is a fine car (sans that stupid live axle). And it's a pretty successful one too. Great style, good performance for the money, respectable fuel economy.

But it's a different buyer than the FT-86. Fact is, most people who buy enthusiast cars don't track them or take them to the local drag strip. They buy based on "hey this feels quick," or "I like how this feels." There's a lot of subjectives and intangibles that come into play. Simply looking at numbers don't tell the story. Plus, bigger numbers don't necessarily mean a funner car.

[Matador]

Irrespective of weight and live axle, that new Mustang handles pretty fucking well. Jut saying.

Carry on.

[Zorro]

^yep

Originally Posted by Aki

Where do you even get this from? The exact opposite is true. 370z sales have dropped and dropped over the years. The switch from 350Z to 370Z didn't help at all. Annual sales by year:

2003 - 36,728
2006 - 24,635
2009 - 13,117
2010 - 10,215
2011 - (sales so far are LOWER than 2010)

From a market perspective, it's clearly a bad idea to pursue the 370Z. "Econobox sales" (aka Civic) meanwhile have been very strong in the past 5 years. So the reverse is true. Econoboxes are here to stay, people are moving away from high-performance machines.

Sales have dropped because the straight line performance has become a joke compared to its competitors like the mustang.

[DA1]

Hey I know this is going to sound a little ?><*(()????
Does anyone see a baby Aston Martin in the geneva show car FT86 II?

[1GoZoom]

Originally Posted by Doty0588

...Ok am I reading it wrong, or did someone screw up?


"BOXER SPORTS CAR ARCHITECTURE is the concept model of Subaru’s rear-wheel-drive sports car now under development-the first of its kind from Subaru for the masses. Its new platform incorporates Subaru’s signature Symmetrical AWD system…"

P.S. taken from last photo of the plaque

Not sure if it was covered as I've only read to your comment atm. From the looks of things (and reading between the lines), it will be rear-drive, but have a front-drive available as well. It almost sounds an independent four wheel 4x4. Sounds like the Subaru version will be heavier regardless.

[1GoZoom]

Originally Posted by Aki

Well, I don't see how you'd expect this thing to not cater to the AE86 crowd since the name is FT-86 for the Toyota version... I mean it's supposed to be the successor to the AE86.

I'm glad it's not using the 2.5L or boost, for a lot of reasons. For one, it's just not the soul of an AE86. The AE86 was a low-horsepower car that was fun because of its lightweight, not because of zomgzboostedtorquez. It's kinda pointless to expect a Supra out of an AE86. Since the Subaru/Toyota versions will be similar, don't see why you'd expect something different. If you're wanting boost and torque, why not just get a WRX/STI?

As far as sub-250 horsepower cars not being popular, I think if anything the opposite will be true. As the economy recovers, fuel prices will start going back up again. Already the demand for cars is overwhelmingly for fuel economy. That favors smaller, more fuel-efficient engines, not another boosted 2JZ. Hence fuel economy, not brute horsepower numbers will be on the minds of potential buyers.

Without getting into much specifics, I'll just say I'm glad that they picked this powerplant, because I think it's a pretty good one.



Where do you even get this from? The exact opposite is true. 370z sales have dropped and dropped over the years. The switch from 350Z to 370Z didn't help at all. Annual sales by year:

2003 - 36,728
2006 - 24,635
2009 - 13,117
2010 - 10,215
2011 - (sales so far are LOWER than 2010)

From a market perspective, it's clearly a bad idea to pursue the 370Z. "Econobox sales" (aka Civic) meanwhile have been very strong in the past 5 years. So the reverse is true. Econoboxes are here to stay, people are moving away from high-performance machines.

Because we don't want to drive "a wounded wet baseball cap on wheels" (credit to Everyday Driver for that one). I want a sports car with a turbo Boxer motor that purrs and goes like stink. Screw drifting competitions. Give us a car that is a great daily driver and weekend warrior. An engineer's wet dream. Not some ricer-gets-older-and-wants-a-rwd-rice-burner car. If you DON'T have a turbo, it'll be bought in auto form by losers and dumb girls (No offense to any women on here. You aren't who I'm speaking about.) and moms. We do that, and the aftermarket dies. This isn't the 80s kids. Turbos are commonplace. Do it.

[ryun84]

Originally Posted by 1GoZoom

Because we don't want to drive "a wounded wet baseball cap on wheels" (credit to Everyday Driver for that one). I want a sports car with a turbo Boxer motor that purrs and goes like stink. Screw drifting competitions. Give us a car that is a great daily driver and weekend warrior. An engineer's wet dream. Not some ricer-gets-older-and-wants-a-rwd-rice-burner car. If you DON'T have a turbo, it'll be bought in auto form by losers and dumb girls (No offense to any women on here. You aren't who I'm speaking about.) and moms. We do that, and the aftermarket dies. This isn't the 80s kids. Turbos are commonplace. Do it.

I don't know. Turbo or not, I believe the people you mentioned (who we don't want buying this car in mass numbers) will purchase it anyway, especially if there is an automatic transmission variant available. But I definitely agree, a turbo variant would be nice, if only for the future performance potential from aftermarket work.

[Kage]

Originally Posted by 1GoZoom

Because we don't want to drive "a wounded wet baseball cap on wheels" (credit to Everyday Driver for that one). I want a sports car with a turbo Boxer motor that purrs and goes like stink. Screw drifting competitions. Give us a car that is a great daily driver and weekend warrior. An engineer's wet dream. Not some ricer-gets-older-and-wants-a-rwd-rice-burner car. If you DON'T have a turbo, it'll be bought in auto form by losers and dumb girls (No offense to any women on here. You aren't who I'm speaking about.) and moms. We do that, and the aftermarket dies. This isn't the 80s kids. Turbos are commonplace. Do it.

I still just don't get the problem with those types of people buying this car? Please explain it to me because from what I see a "dumb girl", mom, or even the rice burners owning the same car as I do doesn't make it any better or worse.

And it having a turbo isn't going to stop someone from buying a car. Who in their right mind are going to look at a car, decide they want it and then say "wait, this thing is turbod? nvm not interested." WTF. I do want a turbo'd version but would prefer having a 200hp n/a than a 210hp turbo(genesis coupe). Unless than N/A has 150lb-ft, and the turbo has like 200+...then I'll take the torque.

And going back to people buying the car. Doesn't matter if everyone, their mom, and their grandma buys this car. Well, actually it does. The more people buy this car the greater chance Toyota makes more cars like it.

[cvbikeguy]

car looks so effing gorgeous

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

OMFG would everybody just give the awd thing a rest? It will be RWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REAR WHEEL DRIVE.

Yay. :>

Now.. the design of the car.. and this "STI" version ooo..

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by Hachiroku

Subaru Press Release:
Major Specifications of "BOXER Sports Car Architecture":
Body size (Overall: Length x Width x Height): 4,200 x 1,770 x 1,270 mm
Wheelbase: 2,570 mm

For reference, the newer WRX sedans are:

Length x Width x Height: 4,580 x 1,796 x 1,476 mm
Wheelbase: 2,620 mm
Curb Weight: 3,208 lbs

Hatchbacks are similar but: 4,415mm long.
The older non-flared models were: 1,740 wide.
The older non-flared models had Curb Weight: 3,142 lbs

So they'll be:
Nearly as wide as a WRX
Just a bit shorter wheelbase
200mm, (8") lower
380mm (15") shorter than the sedans; 215mm (8.8") shorter than the hatchbacks

WOW that'll be a nice compact car and pretty wide for its size, VERY stable.
Furthermore, given the size lopped off and the lack of AWD / Subaru transmission, should be quite light.