Why Supercharged Instead of Turbo?

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Now that you've mentioned F1, I would totally take one the lag free turbos once they hit the market.

The FA20T setup in the WRX with a smaller twin scroll unit is just about as close to that as you can get. However the high torque at low RPM's is a recipe for losing traction in a lightweight RWD car.

[campy]

Turbos and SCs are just different kinds of glorified air pumps. They obviously both work just as well, otherwise everyone would just use one while the other went extinct.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by campy

Turbos and SCs are just different kinds of glorified air pumps. They obviously both work just as well, otherwise everyone would just use one while the other went extinct.

Both have their pros and cons compared to the other, but both work well enough to be used equally.

A lot of times these topics on the forums end up devolving into "I like this one more, so it has to be the best choice right? RIGHT GUYS?"

[JS + BRZ]

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

The main reason is that it's enough extra torque to really get rid of that dip. Also it's instant boost, it takes the motor milliseconds to spool up to full speed.

Also it requires very little work to install it. It's removable in less than a half hour for when you take it into the detailer, etc.

For reference though, what would you do with 2K to get similar performance? It's good for people to know their options.

exactly 25% performance gain for only $2k, hard to beat that for sure...

I really wanted to get an electric supercharger but opted for Kraftwerks for extended track use, hopefully in the future they will come up with more advanced options

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

You assume I ever let my foot off the gas to go from 6k to 5k rpm's... I don't. I've run many tracks, drifted with the pros on pro courses in Japan, and maintaining your throttle position is key to any type of performance driving. If you're letting your RPM's fall without keeping your foot on the accelerator then of course you're going to get lag in any situation. There is always a delayed response to your foot.

unless you drive an AWD that mandates you to keep your foot on the gas since otherwise it causes lift-off oversteer (due to central diff becomes an open diff ), you don't necessarily keep your foot on the gas all the time..

many people use left foot brake the adjust the load on the front suspension and maintain balance and in RWD cars you can get away with lift-off throttle.. when I had my vette, I was lifting the throttle if I feel I entered too hot and/or noticed some understeer, those are the things you can never do with a turbo...

if you don't like the parasitic loss and look for big numbers on the dyno and umph feel on the street then turbo it is, there's nothing wrong with that, I still miss my turbo cars, they were fun... (except track days )

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by glamcem

exactly 25% performance gain for only $2k, hard to beat that for sure...

I really wanted to get an electric supercharger but opted for Kraftwerks for extended track use, hopefully in the future they will come up with more advanced options

The procede controller that pairs with it, while an extra $500, does a good job of managing the boost for you so you're rarely without it. It delivers the power more linearly and makes it feel like a more powerful engine.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's also why an automatic Porsche Turbo is faster than the manual; the turbos don't need to respool between shifts.

Porsche isn't a good comparison for that as with their variable technology it would be a moot point. The 911 doesn't come in stick anymore anyway as well. It's also ignoring that they use dual clutch gearboxes which have lower losses than a conventional auto and can shift faster than you can blink. Even if boost didn't drop on shifts with a stick, you'd still lose.


But yes, on an old school journal bearing turbo with a normal conventional auto and stick, the auto will usually win so long as the drivetrain loss isn't excessive.

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

I'm just curious why you would be willing to spend so much money for such little hp gain?

Have to see the dyno sheets, the main gain is low end and in the factory dip. It's also being continuously developed and getting better.

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

Off the line would imply drag racing, in which case most drivers rev their engines up to 4-5k RPM's to make sure boost is there when they launch.

RPM =/= boost with a turbo. If you want boost off the line, you need load (building boost with the torque converter on an auto) or a 2-step.

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

This is only true if the turbo manifold runners and collector are smaller than the stock header, which they are not. The stock exhaust is 2" and I have a 2" outlet on the back wheel of my turbo. Plus my runners are slightly larger on the manifold.

This alone means you don't have the slightest clue about what you're talking about. Turbos are a restriction (so much so that they can seriously quiet down a car) and if they did flow like a straight pipe, that would in essence be breaking the laws of physics.


The main reason turbos are better than superchargers is that they're low maintenance (they use the same oil as the engine) and they're more efficient than superchargers (though a Rotrex gets damn close). They're also in essence a "displacement on demand" as load = boost = more power. This is why the OEM's like them because they can have the passing ability of a larger engine, with good fuel economy.

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

You assume I ever let my foot off the gas to go from 6k to 5k rpm's... I don't. I've run many tracks, drifted with the pros on pro courses in Japan, and maintaining your throttle position is key to any type of performance driving. If you're letting your RPM's fall without keeping your foot on the accelerator then of course you're going to get lag in any situation. There is always a delayed response to your foot.

Bypass/blowoff valve doesn't only work when the throttle is closed, it also kicks in at smaller pressure differential changes (like if you let off the throttle). Pushing the clutch is removes the load on the engine so it's also going to cut boost.


If you've ever driven a car with a loudish BOV you'd know all this...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Porsche isn't a good comparison for that as with their variable technology it would be a moot point. The 911 doesn't come in stick anymore anyway as well. It's also ignoring that they use dual clutch gearboxes which have lower losses than a conventional auto and can shift faster than you can blink. Even if boost didn't drop on shifts with a stick, you'd still lose.


But yes, on an old school journal bearing turbo with a normal conventional auto and stick, the auto will usually win so long as the drivetrain loss isn't excessive.

Just for shits and giggles, lets take it to an extreme.

All the truly ridiculous Supras are automatic... for good reason Old school torque converter, old school turbo, and all.



My example was really geared toward older Turbos, but yes, you are correct.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Just for shits and giggles, lets take it to an extreme.

All the truly ridiculous Supras are automatic... for good reason Old school torque converter, old school turbo, and all.



My example was really geared toward older Turbos, but yes, you are correct.

Hey man, a powerglide doesn't really count




Anyway, the main reason I think a lot of people go SC is because it's a truly bolt on affair and there are good off the shelf tunes for them.

[Teseo]

Why not install both? SC for mid-range and TC for top-end.
For those who dont like "lags" meanwhile cornering, try brake with left foot meanwhile right foot is slighty on the gas pedal. This is a matter of preferrence, i like blonde chiks the other like brunette

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Teseo

Why not install both? SC for mid-range and TC for top-end.
For those who dont like "lags" meanwhile cornering, try brake with left foot meanwhile right foot is slighty on the gas pedal. This is a matter of preferrence, i like blonde chiks the other like brunette

That has extremely limited application...

[8686]

Originally Posted by Teseo

Why not install both? SC for mid-range and TC for top-end.
For those who dont like "lags" meanwhile cornering, try brake with left foot meanwhile right foot is slighty on the gas pedal. This is a matter of preferrence, i like blonde chiks the other like brunette

I am thinking about adding a turbo to my setup to give me a punch of power in the high rpm range.

Still not sure what turbo size I have to go and who is the tuner to contact for this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Malt]

Originally Posted by TurboBRZ

I'm just curious why you would be willing to spend so much money for such little hp gain?

This pretty much exemplifies the fact that some people see two numbers and make assumptions about the entire car.

There is more to power delivery than peak numbers. When you see quoted figures they are referencing only two points of the cars entire RPM range. Peak Torque and Peak HP. There is a whole RPM range to deliver power through and focusing solely on peak numbers isn't exactly telling unless your main concern is bench racing.

The main reason people look at the electric superchargers is to get loads more low down torque while also getting some decent gains up top while remaining a fairly inexpensive mod. Obviously it doesn't replace a purpose built turbo or supercharger but its pretty good at what its intended purpose is.

Start to look at the complete package instead of number chasing and you'll end up much happier with whatever car you have.