Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

They aren't the prettiest, but I'd love to have one as a drift car!

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I don't really consider the BMWs or the FR-S/BRZ to be classed in the same way. They aren't front-mid engine, and their suspension is a compromise. They are sports coupes with polished handling, but they are also "normal" cars in many ways. They don't have the same sophistication in terms of weight balance & suspension design.

The RX-8 is definitely close (I mean, it's a long wheelbase, 4-seat, coupe version of the NC Miata), for sure.... but it's also heavier, bigger (4 seats), and not particularly attractive when it comes to the engine. I would agree that the handling performance is definitely there though. I would say the RX7 is even closer and probably the closest thing available to what I described. I very much want Mazda to make a new RX7 or high performance coupe version of the Miata.

You don't think a z3 is in the same category (definitely not the same class) as an s2k or miata?.....

Granted its 2 cylinders larger ... so there is that.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

You don't think a z3 is in the same category (definitely not the same class) as an s2k or miata?.....

Granted its 2 cylinders larger ... so there is that.

I mean, it's similar in some ways, but not in the ways I described. It's a roadster, but it's more of a luxury cruiser than a focused sports car. It's a little heavier and has a big inline 6 cylinder that extends out past the front strut towers and macpherson struts. It's focused on being a nice all-around car with some power, comfort, and style. It doesn't have the same sort of focus the Miata or S2000 have.

[burdickjp]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I mean, it's similar in some ways, but not in the ways I described. It's a roadster, but it's more of a luxury cruiser than a focused sports car. It's a little heavier and has a big inline 6 cylinder that extends out past the front strut towers and macpherson struts. It's focused on being a nice all-around car with some power, comfort, and style. It doesn't have the same sort of focus the Miata or S2000 have.

Have you spent much time around a Z3?

The Z3 weighed 1160-1350 kg according to wikipedia. That's between very much lighter and just a bit heavier than the toyobaru or the s2000. Other than the M models, they made similar power to the Miata (4 cylinders) or the S2000 (6 cylinders). Yes, they could come with 4 cylinder engines.
The previous Miatas don't have the wheels pushed as far forward or engine pushed as far back as you'd expect. The same can be said for the twins.

What I'm getting at here is that the Z3 wasn't the GT car you're making it out to be.

The M coupe was also a freakin' amazing car. Probably the last good BMW.

[DarkSunrise]

I wouldn't even class the S2000 and NA/NB Miata in the same category. The Miata feels noticeably lighter and more nimble than the S2k when you drive them back-to-back. The latter felt more akin to the Twins or RX-8 (probably because they're all in the same 2700-3000 lbs weight range). If anything, the Mazda 2 captures some of the NA/NB agility, although obviously in a FWD package.

I've also driven the Z3 2.8 when a relative of mine owned one. It handles pretty well, but is definitely more substantial feeling than even the Twins/S2k/RX-8, probably as a deliberate result of BMW's chassis tuning. It's also much more refined on the interior and had loads of low-end torque comparatively.

[burdickjp]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

had loads of low-end torque comparatively.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[glamcem]

I owned both Miata and BRZ, Miatas are great cars but the problem is the lack of the community and the aftermarket support, and it's a lot harder to work on the cramped engine bay, but those shouldn't be an issue if you plan to keep it stock ..too bad they only offer the Mazda 3 engine that only revs up to 6800 RPM, the outgoing NC Miata has a special engine that can rev up to 7400 rpm, Mazda had an opportunity to come up with a killer car but they simply killed it by offering only 155 hp, if they bring the MazdaSpeed version of this that would be a real game changer though

[glamcem]

I think their ultimate goal was to offer a slightly faster car than the BRZ and stop it there ,

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I owned both Miata and BRZ, Miatas are great cars but the problem is the lack of the community and the aftermarket support, and it's a lot harder to work on the cramped engine bay, but those shouldn't be an issue if you plan to keep it stock ..too bad they only offer the Mazda 3 engine that only revs up to 6800 RPM, the outgoing NC Miata has a special engine that can rev up to 7400 rpm, Mazda had an opportunity to come up with a killer car but they simply killed it by offering only 155 hp, if they bring the MazdaSpeed version of this that would be a real game changer though

This is some of the most ridiculous stuff I have ever heard on this forum.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Miatas are great cars but the problem is the lack of the community and the aftermarket support,

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by glamcem

too bad they only offer the Mazda 3 engine that only revs up to 6800 RPM, the outgoing NC Miata has a special engine that can rev up to 7400 rpm, Mazda had an opportunity to come up with a killer car but they simply killed it by offering only 155 hp,

lmao did you read the reviews? It has a different head and lighter flywheel than the 3 and by offering "only 155 hp" they kept the clubsport trim level with bilsteins and an LSD to $28k while knocking nearly 1 second off the NC's (pre-'09) 0-60 time.

The only potential downside to the ND is we don't know how Skyactiv takes modifications, logic would suggest that the high compression and focus on fuel economy and emissions with a relatively new direct injection setup would make it a bad tuning platform.

But the exact same thing was said about the FA20 and it seems to be taking a bolt on supercharger with a whopping 80+ hp increase without skipping a beat and there are hundreds running around with 300+ whp vs. the stock ~170 at best.



Solely measuring an engine by peak hp is like picking a wife via shoe size.

[Lonewolf]

Damnit, outright speed doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but even this 155 hp Miata is ahead of the twins in acceleration numbers...

do something Toyota/Subaru (215 hp perhaps/ eliminate the torque dip)...don't be such pansies

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Damnit, outright speed doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but even this 155 hp Miata is ahead of the twins in acceleration numbers...

do something Toyota/Subaru (215 hp perhaps/ eliminate the torque dip)...don't be such pansies

It's all about the feels man! adding 15 crank horse power would completely throw of this car's balance...

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by donoman

I would buy at the new Miata if it was (1) a hardtop coupe or (2) came with a power retractable hardtop. I had a 1994 Miata R that leaked. What a pain in the ass. Those tops are not cheap.

WAT?


The tops are very cheap and easy to install. Sure, if you want a cloth top with heated back glass it starts getting expensive, but a stock style top for an NA is uber cheap.

Originally Posted by Atropine

The Miata clearly communicates with the less advanced driver nicely and lets them know where they are. The Twins do that as well (with stock tires). BUT if you add super sticky tires...you can become overwhelmed.

Except that's not what he said. He said: "It feels like it has way more tire grip, but when the tires lose their grip, they lose it very fast, so this car needs to stay hooked up."


For someone like him this is OK, but it would probably bite some people in the ass.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Like riding a fat chick, it's fun until your friends find out. Dear god that thing is ugly and consistently makes the list for ugliest cars ever made for a reason...

Originally Posted by glamcem

I owned both Miata and BRZ, Miatas are great cars but the problem is the lack of the community and the aftermarket support, and it's a lot harder to work on the cramped engine bay, but those shouldn't be an issue if you plan to keep it stock ..too bad they only offer the Mazda 3 engine that only revs up to 6800 RPM, the outgoing NC Miata has a special engine that can rev up to 7400 rpm, Mazda had an opportunity to come up with a killer car but they simply killed it by offering only 155 hp, if they bring the MazdaSpeed version of this that would be a real game changer though

Wait, what? Miata is the Civic of the convertible world. There's a massive community and aftermarket for them and if you think the engine bay is cramped you need to try working on the car with your hands not your feet...


Though I'm sure you were being sarcastic, right?

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lmao did you read the reviews? It has a different head and lighter flywheel than the 3 and by offering "only 155 hp" they kept the clubsport trim level with bilsteins and an LSD to $28k while knocking nearly 1 second off the NC's (pre-'09) 0-60 time.

The only potential downside to the ND is we don't know how Skyactiv takes modifications, logic would suggest that the high compression and focus on fuel economy and emissions with a relatively new direct injection setup would make it a bad tuning platform.

But the exact same thing was said about the FA20 and it seems to be taking a bolt on supercharger with a whopping 80+ hp increase without skipping a beat and there are hundreds running around with 300+ whp vs. the stock ~170 at best.



Solely measuring an engine by peak hp is like picking a wife via shoe size.

Well, as the NC's ECU was able to be reflashed and took to mods well, I don't see this being an issue here either.


Not to mention there's supposed to be an Alfa version of the car with a turbocharger (who knows if they're using the same engine at all though).