Automatic FRS

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by TCGMark

Here is something I considered when buying the manual transmission. How much it costs to rebuild an automatic. Every automatic I have owned at some point needed transmission work. Of the manual transmissions I have owned, only one needed a rebuild after I put 350k miles on it (I didn't baby the gearbox either). In my experience, manual transmissions last way longer than automatic transmissions do (this is not considering the fact that new technologies and such could possibly make an automatic last longer). How many clutches would you have to replace before you paid for a rebuild on an automatic? To each their own, of course, but so far I have not seen this point brought up in this thread yet.

Good point, the simplicity of the manual makes for great maintenance compared to the slushbox. Typical maintenance on a manual is checking your fluids every 22.5K (changed upon inspection) and (depending on how well you shift) clutch replacement should be a rarity but even then it's an opportunity to install an upgraded unit. On an automatic fluid and filter changed is every 60k (but check the levels while the engine is running every so often to make sure there's enough ATF, no varnish, foam, or black bits on the dip stick). Typically when automatics fail they require an expensive rebuild/replacement and almost never drive the same again (and usually require tweaking) -something you don't hear happening to manuals.
Manuals also give you the ability to push start -I know it doesn't seem like a big deal but that's saved me over the years when my battery mistakenly drained out. Towing a manual isn't as stressful when you can't get a flatbed and since the front is so low I don't think you'd want to risk towing it by the rear wheels. Never tow a AT car with the drive wheels on the ground even in neutral there's potential for catastrophic damage (unless you can disconnect & secure the driveshaft first).

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by dnieves

Ever get the Feeling we manual drivers will be a dying breed in the next 15 years? Just like people that know cursive and remember life without the Internet?

Unfortunately things seem to be going down that path. I honestly think it goes hand-in-hand with the decline of youth's interest in cars. It used to be that kids were excited about getting a license and learning stick. Very different world today. Kids seem more interested in gadgets and automated cars that drive for you. Nothing wrong with that, there's a certain appeal in that too, even if it's not for me.

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

In the end I chose the MT, I simply preferred its more visceral feel. In a car where feel is paramount to its character, its hard for me to ignore the option of getting even more.

I agree with this. I've done track days with a dual-clutch auto and a manual, and had more fun with the manual. The DCT was undoubtedly faster and allowed me to select my own gears easily enough, but in the end, there's nothing like heel-toe downshifting entering a corner and snapping off crisp upshifts as you motor down a straight.

(I know a lot of automatic guys may not understand that paragraph above, and that's fine. It's just my personal preference, and I'm in no way saying it has to be your's.)

As I said earlier, let's just be glad the Twins are offered with both.

BTW I was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic for a half-hour today and thought about this thread lol. There are definitely times when autos have their advantages too.

[Jyn]

AFAIK, you can't skip gears at will in an automatic. i.e. - going from 6th to 3rd or 4th to 6th. Not a big deal though, but for anyone that says an auto does everything a manual does.. no.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by Tomcat07

Dude, I was a stones throw away from getting an AT. The speed difference is really negligible, this car is a turning beast.

If people give you shit about your AT just throw these back at them:
"the GT-R is a paddle shift AT"
"if you do an NASA event in the beginner class, only paddle shift drivers are allowed to shift in the turns to the optimal gear they need." (this helped my buddy with a modded golf GTI mk5 take out porches at Roebling Road, GA)
"the AT will probably have better resale value in the future as MT drivers are a dying breed, and the way an MT was driven can really hurt its tranny/clutch etc..."
"you don't have to deal with stop and go traffic"
"or roads that are basically speed bump mountain ranges"

I don't think any of those arguments really work.

Originally Posted by rs999

I'll probably be buying a FR-S this week. I am getting the 6MT version. The reason being is I already have a DSG GTI whose gearbox is light years ahead of any standard automatic with torque converter.

This will be the first manual car I've purchased and the most I've ever driven manual regularly is moving my friends' cars from parking spots and driving an ex-girlfriend's car home.

I think I still have the clutch gas thing down but I am a little heavy on riding the clutch especially when getting out of first.

If the FR-S was offered with an automated manual, I might have chose that over the 6MT version.

I agree. I've heard mostly good things about the automatic transmission (I have a cousin with an auto FR-S and another with an auto BRZ), but I just feel like when offering an automated transmission, a sports car should deserve a dual-clutch at this point in time. But obviously that would add some cost to the car, so the automatic is a reasonable compromise for people who need it for whatever reason... usually if their significant other lacks the skill to drive a manual.


But maintenance on a dual clutch is even worse than on an automatic. In a manual, if you kill the clutch, then replacing it is a pain but not the end of the world. Replacing either (or both) of the clutches in a dual clutch tends to be a much more difficult install, one that probably costs a lot more. I remember seeing the prices for maintenance on cars with manuals vs. their dual clutch counterparts... it's a noticeable chunk more.

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

The idea of AT purchases killing MTs in the future comes from the basic concept of supply and demand. If nobody knows how to or sees the benefit in driving a manual anymore, then the companies will not bother making them. Now, this isn't something that is going to happen over night... or anytime in the very near future. However, there has been a very significant decline in them, particularly in the last 10 years or so.

Yup. Just look at Porsche. Yes, their cars are some of the most involving on the planet. But the 911 GT3 is available only with the dual clutch. While it is the superior transmission in terms of performance, the car was meant to be their top dog in terms of pure driving joy but not necessarily the fastest they had to offer, so the faster shift times that you can brag about help with 'Ring times but don't necessarily represent its reason to be. Obviously it's still an insane car either way, but I feel like it would've been more at home in their most ultimate car possible, like a GT2, which is obviously their fastest non-hypercar. But anyone who likes cars will likely view the GT3 as one of the last cars out there they'd have expected would ditch its manual transmission.


At some point the manufacturer has to go with the times, but enough demand will create a supply. Remember the M5 V-10? BMW intended to release it only with the SMG transmission, but there were enough customers (mostly in the US) who made a stink about it to the point where they released it with an option to get a six-speed manual, even though it ended up being slower. But demand won that day, even though it was on a car that really didn't need it (two ton executive sedan), though admittedly the SMG transmission was just alright but overly complicated with something like 15 different shift modes.

[F4LCON]

Nothing wrong going with in AT, especially if you live in a congested city like NY, like I do. However, I went with the MT despite the horrendous traffic of the city. If you love driving, and are fascinated with the mechanical link between you and the car, than a MT is the only way to have it. Personally I have the MT. Love the sound of immediate shifts and the vibrating gear handle pulsing through my hand. A torque converter just dulls the sharpness of a sports car... they are great for S class Merc's,... but for a BRZ???

[Reigntastic]

Originally Posted by LLYNCES

Did I #$# up in getting the auto?

Yes, you did. I've driven an automatic FR-S a few times, as well as a manual FR-S on a test drive, and a BRZ that a friend owns which has the manual as well.

The automatic weighs more, and disconnects you from the driving experience in a car designed to provide just that. Honestly though, the manual transmission is superb compared to some of the others I have driven, with consistent and short shift throws, and easy downshifting; comparing to seriously upmarket cars. Although the interior might not rate, the gearbox feels as good as an M3 or Cayman S.

The clutch is light and easy to use for novices, and at the end of the day it's a sports car. Paying attention to your drive is the point.

[themajesticone]

Ew Auto...

[F4LCON]

Originally Posted by Reigntastic

Paying attention to your drive is the point.

I definitely would agree. One of the key points of driving a manual is keeping focused on your task at hand, were are your revs, what gear should I be in to make this turn, rev match down shifting into the power-band, managing clutch in TRAFFIC,... etc; Unlike an AT were you can just lounge and sip a can of coke and have a sandwich while you drive.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Jyn

AFAIK, you can't skip gears at will in an automatic. i.e. - going from 6th to 3rd or 4th to 6th. Not a big deal though, but for anyone that says an auto does everything a manual does.. no.

Pull it 3 times in succession is still quicker.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by F4LCON

Nothing wrong going with in AT, especially if you live in a congested city like NY, like I do. However, I went with the MT despite the horrendous traffic of the city. If you love driving, and are fascinated with the mechanical link between you and the car, than a MT is the only way to have it. Personally I have the MT. Love the sound of immediate shifts and the vibrating gear handle pulsing through my hand. A torque converter just dulls the sharpness of a sports car... they are great for S class Merc's,... but for a BRZ???

Did you test the AT?
It isn't as you've described.
Then again it doesn't stop people commenting without trying it first.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Jyn

AFAIK, you can't skip gears at will in an automatic. i.e. - going from 6th to 3rd or 4th to 6th. Not a big deal though, but for anyone that says an auto does everything a manual does.. no.

Technically, you are probably correct, and in most ATs it is definitely a journey through the gears.

In the 86 though, its not a perceptible journey. I can double or triple click up or down with the paddles in the same time it would take me to direct shift from 6th to 3rd in a manual. If the gearbox goes through all the gears as you shift up/down, I certainly can't tell it.

Originally Posted by F4LCON

One of the key points of driving a manual is keeping focused on your task at hand, were are your revs, what gear should I be in to make this turn, rev match down shifting into the power-band, managing clutch in TRAFFIC,... etc; Unlike an AT were you can just lounge and sip a can of coke and have a sandwich while you drive.

I do agree with this, and that is why I test drive the AT first and compared it. You can do both. In manual mode, the AT drives like a MT. It will only shift for you down if the engine would have stalled (and that is something very low like 500RPM), and it never shifts up for you, you can bounce off the limiter all day.

So, I have the option of doing both. By the way, I have no problem sipping soda and eating while driving a manual either.

[Cliu91]

Originally Posted by F4LCON

I definitely would agree. One of the key points of driving a manual is keeping focused on your task at hand, were are your revs, what gear should I be in to make this turn, rev match down shifting into the power-band, managing clutch in TRAFFIC,... etc; Unlike an AT were you can just lounge and sip a can of coke and have a sandwich while you drive.

Psh, you're telling me you can't sip a can of coke and have a sandwich while driving MT? Amateur!

[EZx2]

Sport car, or NOT, sitting in suspension!
Transmission also have an influence in, but once can be "locked"=torque converter out, it behaves (direct feeling of connectin motor+tranny) the same

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

[J_kennington]

So far, every complaint I have seen on autos. Is either from no experience of this cars transmission, or purely wrong information. Most likely made up to make one feel better about having a manual. The ONLY legit argument I see is that the auto is geared higher for better gas mileage. Which is true.

Now, try this on for size. Go to the transmission sub forum. Count the amount of problems reported auto vs stick. Now tell me which one is "more reliable"