which brake pads?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ultra

Still having a headache trying to decide on pads for my car, which is a mid spec GT 86 M/T that uses e smaller brakes.

Huge thanks to Jamal for the tip on the 08WRX. After a whole bunch of photographing and googling calipers I'm pretty sure that my car uses 08 WRX calipers and pads front and rear.

Problem is the iffy choice of pads available, especially rear pads.

My first choice would be Ferodo DS 2500s front and rear but can't find a full set available for sale online.

So I'm debating between:

- Ferodo DS 2500 fronts and Hawk HPS rears (a la Sam Strano)
- DS 2500 fronts and stock rears
- Hawk HP+ front and rear
- Sacrifice small animals or virgins in hopes of digging up a full set of Ferodos.

Carbotechs would be nice but I don't really want to skim my brand new rotors and shipping new ones in would be hella expensive given my location.

Mostly aggressive street driving but I do AutoX and these WILL see the track more than a few times in the coming months.

Any advice appreciated!

Or just buy LGT 2010+ rear rotors, calipers and brackets? Front are WRX for both I think? I have spare WRX rotors I bought for when the OEM ones crack next week, so I'll find out soon enough I guess :P

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ultra

So I'm debating between:

- Ferodo DS 2500 fronts and Hawk HPS rears (a la Sam Strano)

For the love of God don't use HPS pads. I found them to be utterly HOPELESS, *dangerous* at the track, WAY WAY WAY worse than OEM Honda S2000 pads! Mine gave up on the warm-up lap and the pedal got soft and would sink to the floor in the braking zones. Bleeding changed NOTHING! Swapping OEM back in after three disastrous abbreviated sessions at Mont Tremblant (by then HPS pads had totally vaporized) gave VASTLY improved, usable (if far from outstanding) braking. I simply could not baby the brakes enough to keep the HPS pads working AT ALL.

Also, before I went to the track, the pads were NOTICEABLY softer and less grippy vs. OEM on the street.
In my experience, HPS pads are the suckiest suck pads that ever sucked. You're likely much better off keeping OEM in back.

- Hawk HP+ front and rear

I love these pads on the S2000 on street tires. WAY more initial bite than Carbotech XP8s or XP10s, and higher coefficient throughout the braking zone. However, lower max operating temps vs. "real" track pads. But I've never had a problem with them for bone-stock AP1 on street tires. This setup is what I will try first for tracking the FR-S/BRZ (If I ever get one...).

Carbotechs would be nice but I don't really want to skim my brand new rotors and shipping new ones in would be hella expensive given my location.

I can't recommend it as it's not consistent with instructions for using them, but I will say that I never had a problem with XP8s or XP10s mixing them back and forth with OEM Honda pads or with HP+ on the same rotors. YMMV...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I can't recommend it as it's not consistent with instructions for using them, but I will say that I never had a problem with XP8s or XP10s mixing them back and forth with OEM Honda pads or with HP+ on the same rotors. YMMV...

Yeah.. I'll be running XP10s/8s on stock rotors in a few days, then switching back to OEM Pads. Not worried at all about it here, I'll still bed them in a bit first.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Agreed with ZDan....I can't say enough how much I dislike Hawk HPS. Stock pads are much better.

- Andrew

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Yeah.. I'll be running XP10s/8s on stock rotors in a few days, then switching back to OEM Pads. Not worried at all about it here, I'll still bed them in a bit first.

Personally, I'd sooner go XP8/XP8 or XP10/XP10 than XP10/XP8. I don't see any reason to go with grippier pads up front, I like to get as much out of the rears as I can while maintaining stability in the braking zones.

I never had any problems running XP8/XP8 or HP+/HP+ front/rear on the S2000, even without ABS.
Ditto with HP+/HP+, XP8/XP8, XP10/XP10 on the Z, and XP10/XP10 on the FD.

I've never experienced anything on track that would make me want to go with higher-spec front pads vs. rears on the Z, AP1, or FD. I want the rears contributing to the effort!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Personally, I'd sooner go XP8/XP8 or XP10/XP10 than XP10/XP8. I don't see any reason to go with grippier pads up front, I like to get as much out of the rears as I can while maintaining stability in the braking zones.

I never had any problems running XP8/XP8 or HP+/HP+ front/rear on the S2000, even without ABS.
Ditto with HP+/HP+, XP8/XP8, XP10/XP10 on the Z, and XP10/XP10 on the FD.

I've never experienced anything on track that would make me want to go with higher-spec front pads vs. rears on the Z, AP1, or FD. I want the rears contributing to the effort!

We've had this discussion before

Old dog.. no new tricks

[ZDan]

I hope he doesn't mind my linking, but we *do* have another opinion based on track experience:
http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/9727...review-part-2/
[XP10 fronts with XP8 rears on a BRZ]
>>>I've reached the conclusion that staggering the brake pads (XP8 in the rear) was a mistake. I was unable to trail brake for any of the turns effectively. The car simply refused to rotate under trail braking; instead it just plowed.<<<

However, another thread in these forums suggests the crux of the trail-braking understeer problem might be to do with electronic "aids" (from which, God save us...).

Still, I don't get, never got "staggered" brake pads. Don't see the need to purposely underutilize the rear brakes if there aren't any stability issues (which I've never had with non-staggered pads).

[FRSpdDmn]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Yeah.. I'll be running XP10s/8s on stock rotors in a few days, then switching back to OEM Pads. Not worried at all about it here, I'll still bed them in a bit first.

Dave, do you have a report back on the performance?

To everyone else: Use a pad that is designed for the heat range you will be operating in. I hear all this "HPS sucks". Well, they're street pads. Of course they suck. This is not rocket science, but selecting the right pad for your application is crucial. It could take some trial and error. Maybe even some data (temp paint, IR gun, driver feedback, etc). Also, you are not going to need full bore race pads if you're running on stock tires. Even upgraded street tires. Yes, upgrade the pads. But select the right heat range.

[Racecomp Engineering]

^ I agree on selecting the right heat range pad, but my problem with HPS pads is that they suck even as street pads and are often advertised as a "sport" upgrade to stock which is entirely false. There is no application where they are acceptable to me.

- Andrew

[FRSpdDmn]

I guess I am reading his thread in regards to upgrading for track duty, which is why I was wondering why everyone kept talking about the HPS.

Dave mentioned that he hated Hawk Blues. And with good reason. Also not good. However, the HT-10s and DTC lineup are very good. Again, select the appropriate pad for your application. I am working with them right now to see what they can do, but I am targeting the HT-10s to start with for my car with upgraded tires (Max performance summer or R888/RA-1s.).

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by FRSpdDmn

Dave, do you have a report back on the performance?

To everyone else: Use a pad that is designed for the heat range you will be operating in. I hear all this "HPS sucks". Well, they're street pads. Of course they suck. This is not rocket science, but selecting the right pad for your application is crucial. It could take some trial and error. Maybe even some data (temp paint, IR gun, driver feedback, etc). Also, you are not going to need full bore race pads if you're running on stock tires. Even upgraded street tires. Yes, upgrade the pads. But select the right heat range.

The XP pads worked well. Stock fluid and pads started to fade after 3 laps at Mid Ohio (I was too lazy to deal with it in the morning). Once I switched I ran the rest of my sessions without any issues and ended up with nice smoking front brakes after every session.

I will try XP10s all around next time, but I'm afraid that the rear brakes didn't get up to any reasonable temp anyways and am of the opinion that the brake bias/EBD stuff is more to blame than anything else and I'm not convinced a higher temp material in the rear will help much at all, but what they hell, I'll give it a shot.

I'd love to get some rotor temp paint and caliper temp stickers but they are fairly pricey

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by FRSpdDmn

I guess I am reading his thread in regards to upgrading for track duty, which is why I was wondering why everyone kept talking about the HPS.

Dave mentioned that he hated Hawk Blues. And with good reason. Also not good. However, the HT-10s and DTC lineup are very good. Again, select the appropriate pad for your application. I am working with them right now to see what they can do, but I am targeting the HT-10s to start with for my car with upgraded tires (Max performance summer or R888/RA-1s.).

I think the HPS stuff started because the rear pads (at least at the time according to Jeff) only had HPS available, not HP+ (which someone asked about). From there it just continued.

Yes, HT-10s and DTC are reportedly very nice and I know guys that love them. I've never used them though. I used to love blues, but the dusting/rusting kills them for me..... and they just aren't as good as many of the newer pads.

[FRSpdDmn]

Oh damn... You were up in my neck of the woods. All the way from Florida? I'll be at Mid-Ohio for NASA Nationals in SpecE30 next weekend, but then I'll have my FR-S there when I'm up there for BMWCCA Oktoberfest 2 weeks later. That's what I'm trying to prepare for. What tires (size, compound) were you on? Any suspension mods?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by FRSpdDmn

Oh damn... You were up in my neck of the woods. All the way from Florida? I'll be at Mid-Ohio for NASA Nationals in SpecE30 next weekend, but then I'll have my FR-S there when I'm up there for BMWCCA Oktoberfest 2 weeks later. That's what I'm trying to prepare for. What tires (size, compound) were you on? Any suspension mods?

I was up for an event I help run (ITR Expo). I was just running AD08s in 235/40/17, stock suspension on one day, eibach sportline with whiteline top hats up front the second day.