100,000 Units Annual Goal for BRZ/FR-S/86 Announced by President of Fuji Heavy Indust

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by bambbrose

Maybe it's the conspiracy theorist in me, but maybe they are upping production because of feedback from the US regarding price targets.

Maybe they need a higher order quantity to drive pricing down to the level that we are demanding, with the yen/$ imbalance. They are seeing such a high demand early on, that they are biting the bullet and placing those 100K orders, to secure lower prices.

I'm sure its a gamble for all parties, but in the end it should drive our prices down, or at least make it more profitable for Subaru/Toyota.

All I can say is I hope that increased production numbers means decreased cost for everyone, especially with Limited pricing looking like it could be over $30k OTD. I'm seriously stretching my budget to afford a car at that price point. Presumably, if Toyota sells 7x as many units and Subie sells 6x as many units as originally projected, they can sell more for less and make equal or better profit.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

If you want a rare car you should probably look elsewhere. ....

I guess we should put "rare" in prospective. According to Wards Auto, In January and February of 2012 The 10th most popular car in the US in Sales was the Prius. It sold 32,144 in 2 months. The Sierra (10th most popular truck/SUV) sold 20,823 units.

The most popular (Camry, 62,837 units) and the Ford F-Series (85,766 units) would sell in the US in less than 3 months, the entire world-wide run of the 86/BRZ/FRS.

In total, 2,056,357 (1,057,679 cars and 998,678 trucks) were sold in the US in 2 months.

I don't think the US allotment of the BRZ/FRS is going to make it common anytime soon, even if all 100K of them came here.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I guess we should put "rare" in prospective. According to Wards Auto, In January and February of 2012 The 10th most popular car in the US in Sales was the Prius. It sold 32,144 in 2 months. The Sierra (10th most popular truck/SUV) sold 20,823 units.

The most popular (Camry, 62,837 units) and the Ford F-Series (85,766 units) would sell in the US in less than 3 months, the entire world-wide run of the 86/BRZ/FRS.

In total, 2,056,357 (1,057,679 cars and 998,678 trucks) were sold in the US in 2 months.

I don't think the US allotment of the BRZ/FRS is going to make it common anytime soon, even if all 100K of them came here.

I agree it won't be like a Camry or F-150. But hopefully the increased production will decrease cost, increase aftermarket support and decrease dealer markup.

[eikond]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

If you want a rare car you should probably look elsewhere. This isn't a Pagani or a 1M. The more cars out there, the cheaper the parts become and the larger the aftermarket suppor. I don't get all this rubbish talk about wanting a mid $20k car to be rare.

The term "rare" is very relative...

Of course I'm not expecting a $25k car to be rare in terms like special run exotics..

To put things in perspective.. Let's compare with the Nissan 240sx.
They sold over 60,000 cars per year in the first two years (89-90) and then 20k to 30k per year through 93. Even with the drifting craze and 20+ years of rust and rot and crashes, you can still find S13's everywhere.

However, the convertibles were different.. in 3 years they sold just over 8000 of them in the US. That makes them hard to find.. not exlusive and rare like an exotic, but limited enough that they carry some value and are a novelty to see.. you just don't see them very often..

The same goes for the 97-98 (Kouki) 240sx.. 3600 in 97 and just over 1000 in 98. Those cars now pull a major premium because they are very hard to find. There's a stock 5 spd 98 with 100k mlies on sale right now in Ohio.. the guy wants $11k for it.. and is probably right on the money.


I want the car to be in that happy medium.. 6000 per year is perfect.. It's a small enough run to keep them from being on every street corner.. to still make it a novelty to see one. To keep the prices high for resale value because supply remains lower than demand. But, I certainly don't expect them to be sold in the sort of limited quantities that you see with exotics and other high priced cars.

[engee]

Originally Posted by eikond

The term "rare" is very relative...

Of course I'm not expecting a $25k car to be rare in terms like special run exotics..

To put things in perspective.. Let's compare with the Nissan 240sx.
They sold over 60,000 cars per year in the first two years (89-90) and then 20k to 30k per year through 93. Even with the drifting craze and 20+ years of rust and rot and crashes, you can still find S13's everywhere.

However, the convertibles were different.. in 3 years they sold just over 8000 of them in the US. That makes them hard to find.. not exlusive and rare like an exotic, but limited enough that they carry some value and are a novelty to see.. you just don't see them very often..

The same goes for the 97-98 (Kouki) 240sx.. 3600 in 97 and just over 1000 in 98. Those cars now pull a major premium because they are very hard to find. There's a stock 5 spd 98 with 100k mlies on sale right now in Ohio.. the guy wants $11k for it.. and is probably right on the money.


I want the car to be in that happy medium.. 6000 per year is perfect.. It's a small enough run to keep them from being on every street corner.. to still make it a novelty to see one. To keep the prices high for resale value because supply remains lower than demand. But, I certainly don't expect them to be sold in the sort of limited quantities that you see with exotics and other high priced cars.

[bambbrose]

6000 for the first year maybe, but after that I bet the numbers double at least, as production ramps up.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by eikond

I want the car to be in that happy medium.. 6000 per year is perfect.. It's a small enough run to keep them from being on every street corner.. to still make it a novelty to see one. To keep the prices high for resale value because supply remains lower than demand. But, I certainly don't expect them to be sold in the sort of limited quantities that you see with exotics and other high priced cars.

I would rather have production meet demand rather then artificially suppress production to create limited supply. The car is a mid $20k car. Subaru and Toyota should try and sell as many as possible. I would like to see an average of 20k per year if the demand supports that. Makes for a solid community with hopefully a multitude of aftermarket part options.

Why artificially want to limit supply?

[eikond]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I would rather have production meet demand rather then artificially suppress production to create limited supply. The car is a mid $20k car. Subaru and Toyota should try and sell as many as possible. I would like to see an average of 20k per year if the demand supports that. Makes for a solid community with hopefully a multitude of aftermarket part options.

Why artificially want to limit supply?

Admittedly.. selfish reasons..

Low supply should equal higher resale values.
It also makes the car a little "cooler".. if they sold 50k each year, you'd see them all over the place and they would lose the novelty and noone would be interested in them anymore.


The one point that I will concede to you is aftermarket support.. The more cars on the road, the bigger the market is for mod parts. That brings more venders to the table, increases competition and we get better quality parts and lower prices. So that is a plus!

I'm hoping the FRS gets most of the increased capacity..

[tranzformer]

^ I personally don't buy a car as an investment and plan to keep the car a long time. Would rather have a lower costnth entry than hope for a high resale value that I might never need or use. If the car is as good as it sounds, I will keep it until it dies.

I don't care if I "see it all around". I like the way the car looks so don't mind seeing others in it on my drive to work. I also want others to be happy as well.

[Baldeagle]

It seems to me this car could sell very well, perhaps much better than expected. I realize this car’s mission is to be a highly focused, passionate, minimalist sports car. But it has the potential to appeal to other market segments too. If it does return 33+ mpg on the highway, it could be viewed as an economy car and appeal to some commuters who might enjoy a little fun in their daily commute. With a mid-to-low six second 0 to 60 mph time, it could also be viewed as a semi-performance car and appeal to those who crave power. Obviously with its razor sharp reflexes and superb agility, it will appeal to pure-bred sports car lovers. And with a price point near $25,000, it can also appeal to many budget minded consumers. Despite its unique intent, it may offer great value to a wider market segment than anticipated.

[Huss]

God i cant wait to buy one.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I would rather have production meet demand rather then artificially suppress production to create limited supply. The car is a mid $20k car. Subaru and Toyota should try and sell as many as possible. I would like to see an average of 20k per year if the demand supports that. Makes for a solid community with hopefully a multitude of aftermarket part options.

Why artificially want to limit supply?

Originally Posted by tranzformer

^ I personally don't buy a car as an investment and plan to keep the car a long time. Would rather have a lower costnth entry than hope for a high resale value that I might never need or use. If the car is as good as it sounds, I will keep it until it dies.

I don't care if I "see it all around". I like the way the car looks so don't mind seeing others in it on my drive to work. I also want others to be happy as well.

Tranz, I love your thinking. I also don't care if they make 100k a year for the world. It won't be 100k of them every year. I bet in 5 years they would've only made 300k copies for the whole world. A mustang/camaro will sell 400k copies each in America alone within 5 years equaling 800k cars while the FRS/BRZ will sell less than a 100k copies in America in 5 years. That means for every 8 Mustangs and 8 Camaros there will be 1 FRS and 1 BRZ in the same area. I like those odds better and it's better for the aftermarket tuners.

[slizoth]

When has buying a new car ever been a good investment? I expect the resale value of the car in 2016 to be 10k-12k, aprox half of the estimated cost of the car. So are you okay thorwing away 4k/yr just to drive something new? Not to mention the cost of gas, insurance, and maintenance. If you are great if you aren't, why are you buying a new car?

[eikond]

Originally Posted by slizoth

When has buying a new car ever been a good investment? I expect the resale value of the car in 2016 to be 10k-12k, aprox half of the estimated cost of the car. So are you okay thorwing away 4k/yr just to drive something new? Not to mention the cost of gas, insurance, and maintenance. If you are great if you aren't, why are you buying a new car?

Nobody ever said buying a new car was a good investment. Clearly you don't make money on cars (unless you happened to buy one of a very select few rare and collectible cars and keep it in pristine condition.. ie.. Shelby Cobra, etc. ).

But, I also don't think buying a new car is necessarily much worse than buying a used car. At least if you buy it right.. Let's assume this car is $25k new. I'll pay about $23.5. I'd guess that in 4 years it would be somewhere in the $12k to $14k range with approx 50k miles on it. Remeber that Subaru's hold very high resale values. So expect to have depreciation of anywhere from $9500 to $11500.. so let's call it $2500 per year.

Most used cars tend to depreciate somewhere in the ballpark of $1500 to $2000 per year for a 3-4 year old car. This depends very much on the age of the car and the number of miles of course...

The difference is that you typically have much more maintenance and repair costs on a used car. you could easily spend another $1000 per year on maintenance and repairs.

So in the end, I think you wind up spending a similar amount of money.. either you pay it in pure depreciation, or you pay it in a combination of depreciate and maintenance/repairs. Personally, I'd rather have the new car! I'd even be willing to pay a little more to have the new car over the used car.