CSG Mike's observations on dampers/coilovers

[regal]

I like spring/strut upgrade packages for the street. I guess its a testament to how good the stock setup is that we don't have that option for our cars yet.

I remember driving my stock EG civic and literally had the thing on 2 wheels on a sharp turn my first week of ownership. Upgraded to a Koni Red spring/strut package that just transformed the car, the springs and struts were perfectly matched.

Even my stupid Yaris was greatly improved by instally the TRD spring/strut package (along with bigger Xd wheels.)

Its really surprising that there hasn't been a spring/strut package released for this car. Takes a lot of guesswork out for people who just daily drive and don't track.

[Boil]

See, one side of me wants to just go with some Swift springs, Koni dampers & assorted Whiteline bushing/camber products…

While the other side of me wants to go with Ohlins coil overs, the entire Racer X suspension catalog & the entire Whiteline bushings catalog… Maybe throw in the TRD bracing set as well…

The guy sitting in-between my two sides…? He says to go with the Stance coil overs/rear LCAs combo, the Whiteline bushing/camber collection & maybe a set of RobiSpec front LCAs…

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Boil

See, one side of me wants to just go with some Swift springs, Koni dampers & assorted Whiteline bushing/camber products…

While the other side of me wants to go with Ohlins coil overs, the entire Racer X suspension catalog & the entire Whiteline bushings catalog… Maybe throw in the TRD bracing set as well…

The guy sitting in-between my two sides…? He says to go with the Stance coil overs/rear LCAs combo, the Whiteline bushing/camber collection & maybe a set of RobiSpec front LCAs…

What's your goal for your car? That's the most important question you have to ask before you go into the deep end and purchase parts that may or may not help you get you to your goal. We have already seen this many times over on multiple platforms.

Suspension is there to soak up imperfections in the road and keep your tires in contact with the road. The OEM suspension is surprisingly good for what it is. There are only a few modifications out there that can improve upon that.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ayau

Oh ok. I'm just using them for local autox events. They were cheap (like you said) at $90 vs $140.

while i dont have any first hand experience with them, i have friends who have told me they that they arent as cheap as the initial price would lead one to believe once you factor the longevity of the tire.

[Dezoris]

After finishing a final track review, with speed, brakes tires and more on near stock suspension, for a dual purpose car that spends more time on the street I see no compelling reason to change the stock suspension. It's just that good.

As Mike said its a bit jarring on the street sometimes because of damping but its one of the best street/track acceptable setups I have been on.
Yeah most people only car about getting rid of wheel gap but if you are looking to run fast in autox or track there is plenty of overhead in this car before driver skill begs for more.

[mtimney]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

.... but if you are looking to run fast in autox or track there is plenty of overhead in this car before driver skill begs for more.

I have to agree 100% with this. While I wanted to go out and buy the coolest suspension possible as soon as I bought the car, I listened to other, more knowledgeable drivers and decided to learn to drive the car first before making any big changes.

I'm glad I did. I'm a rookie solo racer and I'm still doing VERY well with the stock suspension (+ better tires and camber bolts) against cars that are way more powerful and/or setup for serious auto-x. If I can do this well with minimal training, then either the other driver's in my area are really bad, I'm the next 'Stig,' or this car is setup pretty darn well from the factory. I bet it's the latter.

[Boil]

Originally Posted by CSG David

What's your goal for your car? That's the most important question you have to ask before you go into the deep end and purchase parts that may or may not help you get you to your goal. We have already seen this many times over on multiple platforms.

Suspension is there to soak up imperfections in the road and keep your tires in contact with the road. The OEM suspension is surprisingly good for what it is. There are only a few modifications out there that can improve upon that.

I would say at first a straight up daily driver (split with the motorcycle) & eventually a still street legal but highly focused track day vehicle.

The springs & such option would be cheapest on the wallet, and allow me to get the vehicle a bit lower than stock and improve the overall feel some (looking at the bushings here). This option might be done while still under warranty.

The middle option would allow a bit more lowering & the fitting of some larger wheels/tires; but I worry about this being a cash loss stage as I would eventually want to replace it with the high bucks option. I suppose some money could be recouped by selling the outgoing bits…

The high end option is very appealing because I just feel the Racer X stuff is going to be a stronger suspension overall; and if I am gonna spend the money at some point, might as well save & 'go for broke'.

Ideally, I would drive the shit out of the vehicle until the warranty was done, saving cash the whole time & planning the build. Then, a vacation trip to a garage for a major makeover and a whole new beast rolls out and is headed for some HPDE goodness!

At this point though, it is all dreams in my head!

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Boil

I would say at first a straight up daily driver (split with the motorcycle) & eventually a still street legal but highly focused track day vehicle.

The springs & such option would be cheapest on the wallet, and allow me to get the vehicle a bit lower than stock and improve the overall feel some (looking at the bushings here). This option might be done while still under warranty.

The middle option would allow a bit more lowering & the fitting of some larger wheels/tires; but I worry about this being a cash loss stage as I would eventually want to replace it with the high bucks option. I suppose some money could be recouped by selling the outgoing bits…

The high end option is very appealing because I just feel the Racer X stuff is going to be a stronger suspension overall; and if I am gonna spend the money at some point, might as well save & 'go for broke'.

Ideally, I would drive the shit out of the vehicle until the warranty was done, saving cash the whole time & planning the build. Then, a vacation trip to a garage for a major makeover and a whole new beast rolls out and is headed for some HPDE goodness!

At this point though, it is all dreams in my head!

When the CSG BRZ was still fresh from the lot, we put on 215 Z1 Star Specs on RPF1s (wheel isn't necessary, but basically just a wheel for that tire to mount onto), crash bolts ($20), and Carbotech XP10s with RBF600 brake fluid. We were torching standard HPDE competition safely and efficiently, while still being supremely forgiving.

It also fits into the idea of a basic stock car setup that runs well and safely for any spirited location. The only downside is experiencing massive tire wear because there wasn't enough front camber for how we drove the car. Car setup can be simple with no headaches. That's why we're here to do our best to make sure your headaches don't exist in the first place.

[ultra]

Curious what you think about the RS*R Sports-i coil overs.

Disclosure: I have them and I do like them ('moto-spec' units with 5kf and 6kr springs, rubber top hats).

Just curious how you think they stack up against what else is out there.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

Curious what you think about the RS*R Sports-i coil overs.

Disclosure: I have them and I do like them ('moto-spec' units with 5kf and 6kr springs, rubber top hats).

Just curious how you think they stack up against what else is out there.

Just how the RCE T0/KW V1/ST Coilovers have their following, the RS*R Sports-i have their following.

They're decent street coilovers that let you get a minor drop without sacrificing too much in terms of suspension geometry or ride quality, but not really up to any sort of hard driving. There's just no flexibility when it comes to coilovers in that price range; you get what you pay for.

[ultra]

Tell me more. Besides double adjustability, what am I missing out on in terms of the driving experience?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

Tell me more. Besides double adjustability, what am I missing out on in terms of the driving experience?

They're designed to be very easy/safe to drive on. They're purposely designed to overload the front tires first, so that it's easy to recover from loss of grip, and difficult to spin on. At the same time, the sport-i is designed to be close enough to the "balance" point that you can kick out the rear via driver input.

As with any coilover in the 5-6k spring range, it lacks the response of a high spring rate setup (if you think your car responds quickly to input, imagine cutting that in half, or even by two thirds...)

The biggest difference is that the damping is designed for comfort, rather than performance. Although most less-expensive coilovers are marketed as a performance improvement (and they typically are due to the higher spring rates), the valving itself is designed to emphasize comfort for a given spring rate, rather than maximize performance (at the cost of a small amount of comfort).

The adjustment allows you to mitigate some of this compromise for ride quality, but it's exceedingly rare to be able to critically damp a 1 way adjustable system unless it's been purpose (custom) built.

For someone who wants a cost effective performance upgrade for strictly street use, they're perfectly fine. It's not something I would consider putting on my own car, or recommend to my boss to even test on the CSG cars.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Just how the RCE T0/KW V1/ST Coilovers have their following, the RS*R Sports-i have their following.

They're decent street coilovers that let you get a minor drop without sacrificing too much in terms of suspension geometry or ride quality, but not really up to any sort of hard driving. There's just no flexibility when it comes to coilovers in that price range; you get what you pay for.

I guess I just disagree with this. Sure, they're probably not gonna win nationals in STX and you might not beat the Caymans and Camaros in World Challenge but I do think there is a place for an upgraded suspension somewhere between stock and $10k four way adjustable shocks. Not everyone needs a motorsport level shock...not everyone needs a $4k double adjustable shock either.

Hard driving for some is just hitting some back roads, a local auto-x, or a monthly track day. For someone that daily drives their car and goes to the occasional HPDE not looking for a trophy, hell yeah these coilovers (RCE T0/KW v1/ST/RS*R) would be up to that kind of hard driving and can be a huge improvement over stock if set up right. And you might even get a trophy at a local auto-x. Either way, there are many different kinds of enthusiasts out there and for some these fit the bill nicely.

Yes, if you want to go faster and you're getting more serious...running stickier tires, maybe have a roll bar installed, and a good amount of track experience...by all means a more expensive and track level shock is very good to have.

That said, there are a lot of coilovers out there that suck and I would avoid and would prefer stock.

- Andy

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Hard driving for some is just hitting some back roads, a local auto-x, or a monthly track day. For someone that daily drives their car and goes to the occasional HPDE not looking for a trophy, hell yeah these coilovers (RCE T0/KW v1/ST/RS*R) would be up to that kind of hard driving and can be a huge improvement over stock if set up right. And you might even get a trophy at a local auto-x. Either way, there are many different kinds of enthusiasts out there and for some these fit the bill nicely.

What is the right setup for RCE T0 for someone with an otherwise stock car for the occasional back road and track day? Lets assume that alignment is also stock, and the track/back roads are fairly bumpy.