GM Says They Will Dominate Tesla

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Junk games? Worried about hard drive space? Lol

Those other things seem fine to me. In fact, I prefer to have the option to add features in the future instead of having to buy the trim that only came with them and stop paying for anything I don’t want.

Oh boy, you don't use a computer for much other than web browsing do you?

The amount of fuckery that Microsoft and Apple have pulled on their OS updates over the past 20 years or so is heartbreaking. Most software companies are moving towards wresting control away from users and Tesla is absolutely in that boat imho. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a rise in Linux usage over the next decade.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The amount of fuckery that Microsoft and Apple have pulled on their OS updates over the past 20 years or so is heartbreaking. Most software companies are moving towards wresting control away from users and Tesla is absolutely in that boat imho. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a rise in Linux usage over the next decade.

At least with Microsoft, and a lesser extent Apple, I can so "nope don't want the updates" and I won't get them. With Tesla it sounds like you never have a choice, including ones that disable previously working functions.

You are right though, most software companies are moving that way, always connected, always subject to the whims of the programmers.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oh boy, you don't use a computer for much other than web browsing do you?

The amount of fuckery that Microsoft and Apple have pulled on their OS updates over the past 20 years or so is heartbreaking. Most software companies are moving towards wresting control away from users and Tesla is absolutely in that boat imho. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a rise in Linux usage over the next decade.

Yes. Mostly internet, iMessage, iTunes, Nightingale, Transmission, occasionally iMovie and Photoscape, and a few other special apps. I know more than the vast majority, while using the capacity more than most. Recently retrofitted my mom’s MacBook Pro with more ram and a Samsung SSD in the optical drive. Still novice by most tech standards.

The majority of users could care less, and prefer OTA updates.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

At least with Microsoft, and a lesser extent Apple, I can so "nope don't want the updates" and I won't get them. With Tesla it sounds like you never have a choice, including ones that disable previously working functions.

You are right though, most software companies are moving that way, always connected, always subject to the whims of the programmers.

You seem to keep referring to this, and I’m imagining you are referring to the guy who bought the used Tesla, and they removed the autopilot or something because it was never paid for.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You seem to keep referring to this, and I’m imagining you are referring to the guy who bought the used Tesla, and they removed the autopilot or something because it was never paid for.

That is one example, yes. Right or not the feature was working when the used car was purchased by the second owner. He thought he was paying for the feature because, well he did, it was in a working used car.

That also points to my argument about paying for hardware to support a function that isn't "switched on", basically a $7,000 bit flip.

There have been other anecdotal issues such as some Model 3 owners claiming their car's performance dropped after on OTA upgrade right before the "performance model" was released, bloatware, etc.

Hey, if Tesla owners are happy with this stuff, then good for them. I'm not, nor do I plan to be, an owner so really I'm voting with my dollars.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That is one example, yes. Right or not the feature was working when the used car was purchased by the second owner. He thought he was paying for the feature because, well he did, it was in a working used car.

That also points to my argument about paying for hardware to support a function that isn't "switched on", basically a $7,000 bit flip.

There have been other anecdotal issues such as some Model 3 owners claiming their car's performance dropped after on OTA upgrade right before the "performance model" was released, bloatware, etc.

Hey, if Tesla owners are happy with this stuff, then good for them. I'm not, nor do I plan to be, an owner so really I'm voting with my dollars.

You can buy a car with active features like a warranty, roadside assistance, etc that expire or don’t transfer, or services like activated XM radio, OnStar, wifi, etc. The problem was with the dealer for not clarifying the autopilot was in a trial period and especially if he charged him a premium for it.

Often times cars come with features that everyone pays for but only few use. It is just more extreme or different in this case. Sometimes you have to pay for a package to get a single feature you want. Sometimes you pay that extra money for navigation when all you use is your phone. Sometimes the engine is overbuilt because you have the detuned model like my wife’s Audi Q5 3.0 SC compared to the SQ5, so this happens all the time.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Sometimes the engine is overbuilt because you have the detuned model like my wife’s Audi Q5 3.0 SC compared to the SQ5, so this happens all the time.

Don't disagree but none of that is the same or to the same extent. Also on the Audi, the thing is if you take it to a tuner and have it adjusted Audi isn't going to so, oh you didn't pay for that, and deactivate it. Sure they might be able to deny warranty but they can't undo something you believe you paid for.

It's all good, all manufacturers do something some of us don't care about and some of us do. We all have our threshold of pain. Tesla passes mine.

[soundman98]

ok, what's the rebuttal to this one? they're writing so much data all the time, tesla is crippling older cars...

https://hackaday.com/2019/10/17/worn...-older-teslas/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

ok, what's the rebuttal to this one? they're writing so much data all the time, tesla is crippling older cars...

https://hackaday.com/2019/10/17/worn...-older-teslas/

Tesla is just first to this game (OTA updates in cars), kinda, but not first to recalls, class action lawsuits or other things that manufacturers face all the time. Tesla can do a recall, or they can fix these as they come in, or they can do nothing and maybe lose customers, or whatever. It seems like the issue is already resolved on new models.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Tesla is just first to this game (OTA updates in cars), kinda, but not first to recalls, class action lawsuits or other things that manufacturers face all the time. Tesla can do a recall, or they can fix these as they come in, or they can do nothing and maybe lose customers, or whatever. It seems like the issue is already resolved on new models.

Agreed on all that.

I suppose, in the end, you can disconnect a Tesla from the Internet which will circumvent all these things. They run fine without it, although you will lose some features that require it. You will have to make sure you get the key card for the car though.

[radroach]

What I don't understand about these companies and their electrics is why they didn't just take an existing platform / chassis and wire it for EV? They have large enough space in the gas tank area to fit batteries.

Some group did a study on the car construction and ruled that Tesla overbuilt design on their model S. For instance the inside of a fender well liner on a normal car might be 3-5 parts, but on a Tesla it's 15-20 parts.

[Wally86]

Originally Posted by radroach

What I don't understand about these companies and their electrics is why they didn't just take an existing platform / chassis and wire it for EV? They have large enough space in the gas tank area.

Some group did a study on the car construction and ruled that Tesla overbuilt design on their car. For instance the inside of a fender well liner on a normal car might be 3-5 parts, but on a Tesla it's 15-20 parts.

I think it's more to do with the secret sauce having nothing to do with the chassis and everything to do with the battery tech. Look at TSLA's numbers for range (400mi+ in the LR ModelS) and look at it compared to their closest competitor (Bolt with 230mi). Even the base model 3 coming in at 40k gives you 250mi and the bolt is only two grand cheaper. (bolt premier is actually more than the Model3 base).

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by radroach

They have large enough space in the gas tank area.

Actually, they don't unless you don't want much range. Gasoline is much more energy dense than batteries. There is a reason the battery pack takes up the entire undercarriage of a car with any range.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by radroach

What I don't understand about these companies and their electrics is why they didn't just take an existing platform / chassis and wire it for EV? They have large enough space in the gas tank area to fit batteries.

Some group did a study on the car construction and ruled that Tesla overbuilt design on their model S. For instance the inside of a fender well liner on a normal car might be 3-5 parts, but on a Tesla it's 15-20 parts.

It was 9 parts in the fender wheel well because Tesla is a new company trying to do things differently, while not having the experience to nail it perfect. The Model Y fixes so much of the things that made their initial models inefficient.

This video answers your question. Essentially, the Bolt is a Spark that is retrofitted with electric components. Trying to fit a square into a round hole just leads to poor packaging, which adds weight and inefficiency, while limiting potential cargo/storage capacity and probably performance.