1st G-force test of my 2017 BRZ.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

Stop talking about chassis. Again this is largely tire. Primacy HPs are a skinny eco tire and are hard as fuck. This is a known thing.

Well, add a Supercharger and better tires and hey presto, it does the same thing.

The posters on this thread can't even agree on whether it is easy or difficult to drift this car.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I gotta ask although I will no doubt get yet another bullshit answer. How often do you drive in the winter? What tires do you actually use? How does being a "good" driver cause problems in snow or rain? Shouldn't a "good" driver know how to drive in these without issues?




You still have never answered me why they still make snows then. Have snows stopped developing while AS have gone through this magical change? You are dishing out decades old opinions on snow tires since most work perfectly well on dry or wet pavement now. No, they are not a summer tire since they get as soft as pillows in warm weather but in cold, snow and ice they outperform AS tires to several degrees.


I have most certainly kept up with the technology which is why I chose the Pilot Sport AS3 Plus as my new tires. They are quieter, perform well in wet conditions and extend the season that I don't have to run snows by a couple of months since they are well reviewed in lower (but still above freezing) temperatures and LIGHT snow. I would be a fool to think they replace proper MODERN winter tires in heavy snow, ice or sub zero temperatures though.

Since you asked, like everyone else I drive every winter. To help you with the maths that would be once every year, at least. How weird you came to the same conclusion about the great tire for this car being the Michelin A/S 3, but I thought of them first. It's a pretty obvious choice if you understand the problems with getting ultra high performance summer tires like the Supersports up to temperature on the street.

As for experience with snow tires it would be amusing to compare tire experience. My current snow tires are Sottozero Serie II. What are you struggling by with?

Before you embark on this little ego battle I should warn you I can go a lot further back then you can. So, I've driven on more types of snow tire in more types of conditions than you have. Guaranteed.

After you.....

[Gforce]

For those of you who may not know that the Michelin Pilot A/S3+ Is the perfect tire for this car here's why I bought mine:

http://flatsixes.com/porsche-product...ot-sport-as-3/

Even the Porsche guys love this tire.

Now I had to buy version one but the new + version is even better:

http://michelinmedia.com/pages/blog/...rticle/c/a435/

Note the improved snow traction.

These "all season" tires actually work on the track. More importantly, they will work even better than say a Supersports for most street driving because they work well even when they are stone cold. A little appreciated advantage of these new breed of all season tire.

Secret ingredient: huile de tournesol

Nokian was first to that party when they stumbled across this secret rubber additive to make their tire production greener. It also makes rubber more consistently pliable over a very wide temperature range, as in from minus 30C to plus 40 C.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

And they were specifically chosen by the design team for those very features. Toyota says so outright.

Yup and when they issued a special upgrade in Europe they didn't. Wonder why?

[Gforce]

I'd love to reply to all of your friendly and informative posts but some of you are inarticulate to,the point of frenzy, so I am not sure what you'all are sayin'.

The Michelin Primacy HP is actually a very good tire, lightweight, good ride and great grip especially in the wet. But it's a grand touring tire, not a high performance tire (although the version Subaru fits is the HP or high performance version).

It's a bit of a waste to put too much summer tire on this chassis, it doesn't have enough power. Even with a Supercharger the Michelin A/S 3 I have on are quite adequate. The tendency to lose grip at the rear axle is designed in by Subaru and better tires do not change that characteristic as many journalists have discovered.

You'all can google yourselves far better than I but here's a good video by a top notch journalist who can also drive, he recently partnered with Gerard Berger at Le Mans, assuming you can remember who Mr Berger was.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ytxJvuTy8As[/ame]

Bear in mind that this was the optional performance version of the GT86 offered in the UK which had 225/40 x 18 PS3 performance tires (about the same performance as the A/S3). Still a real handful chasing a similarly equipped but more powerful modified Miata (sold as the MX5 in the UK).

See, I do know what I'm taking about.

[thomasmryan]

I run summer nokians on three cars and they are fabulous in the wet. Most crashes occur on wet surfaces. I won't drive those cars below 40-45*F as they are a summer compound.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?
v=qg3z4spNS9E


During the winter, snow and ice don't scare me....it's the other drivers.

[Gforce]

And for those of you brave enough to accept the truth about our little sports car here's the direct head to head in stock form:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4xAArXCTY[/ame]

The Mazda gives up nearly 50 bhp yet is quicker.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Since you asked, like everyone else I drive every winter. To help you with the maths that would be once every year, at least. How weird you came to the same conclusion about the great tire for this car being the Michelin A/S 3, but I thought of them first. It's a pretty obvious choice if you understand the problems with getting ultra high performance summer tires like the Supersports up to temperature on the street.

As for experience with snow tires it would be amusing to compare tire experience. My current snow tires are Sottozero Serie II. What are you struggling by with?

Before you embark on this little ego battle I should warn you I can go a lot further back then you can. So, I've driven on more types of snow tire in more types of conditions than you have. Guaranteed.

After you.....

Really? You "thought of them first"? Are you six? How do you know this?
Once again the arrogance of your assumptions is startling. Just how old are you then? I think that comparing tire experience would be funny as hell actually.


I am not the one with a hurt ego claiming to have way more experience and that I am a far superior driver, that is all one sided on your part. My only contention has been that the car handles very well in the snow if it has the proper tires on it.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by thomasmryan

I run summer nokians on three cars and they are fabulous in the wet. Most crashes occur on wet surfaces. I won't drive those cars below 40-45*F as they are a summer compound.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?
v=qg3z4spNS9E


During the winter, snow and ice don't scare me....it's the other drivers.

I ran a set of Nokian Z summers before Bridgestone took over their company. They were good down to freezing temperatures but not below that. The WR was the first all weather tire in the World and I ran a set of those. Since the first WR there has been continuous improvement. We cannot yet get the Crossclimate because our tire market isn't as demanding as that of Europe. But it's a game changer.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Really? You "thought of them first"? Are you six? How do you know this?
Once again the arrogance of your assumptions is startling. Just how old are you then? I think that comparing tire experience would be funny as hell actually.


I am not the one with a hurt ego claiming to have way more experience and that I am a far superior driver, that is all one sided on your part. My only contention has been that the car handles very well in the snow if it has the proper tires on it.

Be my guest.

The BRZ is hopeless in low grip conditions regardless of the tires you fit. Period. Easy to prove.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Yup and when they issued a special upgrade in Europe they didn't. Wonder why?

What I wrote was not a slam on the tire. Even when people agree you have to be on the defense?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

I'd love to reply to all of your friendly and informative posts but some of you are inarticulate to,the point of frenzy, so I am not sure what you'all are sayin'.

The Michelin Primacy HP is actually a very good tire, lightweight, good ride and great grip especially in the wet. But it's a grand touring tire, not a high performance tire (although the version Subaru fits is the HP or high performance version).

It's a bit of a waste to put too much summer tire on this chassis, it doesn't have enough power. Even with a Supercharger the Michelin A/S 3 I have on are quite adequate. The tendency to lose grip at the rear axle is designed in by Subaru and better tires do not change that characteristic as many journalists have discovered.

You'all can google yourselves far better than I but here's a good video by a top notch journalist who can also drive, he recently partnered with Gerard Berger at Le Mans, assuming you can remember who Mr Berger was.

Bear in mind that this was the optional performance version of the GT86 offered in the UK which had 225/40 x 18 PS3 performance tires (about the same performance as the A/S3). Still a real handful chasing a similarly equipped but more powerful modified Miata (sold as the MX5 in the UK).

See, I do know what I'm taking about.

No that does not prove you know what you are talking about just that you can parrot one particular video.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Be my guest.

The BRZ is hopeless in low grip conditions regardless of the tires you fit. Period. Easy to prove.

No answers to my questions eh? Not surprising. What is your age? I guess someplace around 40. How many miles have you driven? You are the one asserting you are far advanced of me. Prove it.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No that does not prove you know what you are talking about just that you can parrot one particular video.

How about two videos.

Here's the tiny Ford Fiesta ST taking lunch money from the Toyota GT86:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qKJ0eNHu5vk[/ame]

Had the track been wet the drubbing would have been much worse.