MotorTrend's Head-2-Head MX-5 MiataRF vs. Toyota86

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by totopo

they are on similar MP-ish tires

I never claimed this car was faster than a V6 mustang, which is a quick car in its own right. I was comparing it to the ND, which comes in max performance Bridgestones developed to mazda's spec, the brz comes on grand touring tires, 2 performance categories lower.

Putting hankook V12s on my car instantly dropped 3 seconds off my auto-x time, from 48 to 45 seconds. And those tires aren't even as good as the MPSS.



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[totopo]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I never claimed this car was faster than a V6 mustang, which is a quick car in its own right. I was comparing it to the ND, which comes in max performance Bridgestones developed to mazda's spec, the brz comes on grand touring tires, 2 performance categories lower.

Putting hankook V12s on my car instantly dropped 3 seconds off my auto-x time, from 48 to 45 seconds. And those tires aren't even as good as the MPSS.



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yes, watch the video at 8:26. The the primacy HP were equivalent to bridgestone s-04 (MP tires, similar to miata). People need to stop knocking the primacys. Stop dreaming that the 86 will become some cayman with some EP tires.

[Impureclient]

3 years of talking trash about the 86... That's dedication.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by totopo

yes, watch the video at 8:26. The the primacy HP were equivalent to bridgestone s-04 (MP tires, similar to miata). People need to stop knocking the primacys. Stop dreaming that the 86 will become some cayman with some EP tires.

HAHAHAHA. the primacy isn't anywhere close to the S-04! I am not knocking the primacies, in fact, I debated getting a 3rd set of them after my 2nd because I love the way the car handles with them. But with the hankooks the car behaves the same, but faster. This is only one datapoint and it honestly sounds like someone fatfingered the numbers. Pobst's subjective impression was that the car was faster. My autoX experience is only one data point too I admit, but the objective and subjective improvements were significant. I'm also entertaining the idea that a driver like pobst can drive the primacies faster than a novice like me by not sliding as much, so the extra grip would benefit me more than him.

Other publications reported significant improvements with MP tires: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ance/index.htm

Again you're putting words in my mouth with the Cayman comment.


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[WorldRallyB]

Originally Posted by totopo

yes, watch the video at 8:26. The the primacy HP were equivalent to bridgestone s-04 (MP tires, similar to miata). People need to stop knocking the primacys. Stop dreaming that the 86 will become some cayman with some EP tires.

I think we're all aware our cars are not Cayman-like with better tires? But hey, if that's your idea of complimenting. I'm well aware my car is slow, dont care.

While its pretty interesting that the s-04s made essentially no difference in lap times, that only contributes little to the topic. Hell, i could now make the argument that the S-04 is a sh*t max performance tire, right? I mean, its 4lbs PER tire heavier than the S001s in the 205/45/17 - 215/45/17 sizes and the BRZ lost 2 seconds per lap by going to something stickier.. Anyway, im not here to fight so i digress.

All im getting at is that id like to see big corporations like MotorTrend make an effort to eliminate or minimize variables so we can see more accurate tests. I want to see a BRZ LTD PP with brembos vs MX-5 RF with brembos on identical tires dammit.

..and i don't want to hear any crap about MT not having the time or budget to put on identical tires, that's baloney. (TireRack is their sponsor for cripes sakes. They went through 8 sets of tires for the Hellcat ignition episode alone)

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by ChrisSC300

The ND is a better more capable car. Its faster in a straight line and will out handle a 86. How mazda got the weight down as low as they did on a modern car is extraordinary. Yes, it has noticeably more body roll, but we all know how easily that is fixed. There is a reason the 86 was bumped down to DS from CS in AutoX after the ND came around. A ND Miata properly set up for STR is just stupid quick.


Don't get me wrong, I love my BRZ. I chose it over a WRX, STI, GT mustang, GTI, and so on... But if I didn't need a back seat I would definitely own a ND Miata.

Too bad Mazda won't make a 2+2 Miata.

[airjonny]

I really hate the strawman argument coming from Jason. No one is asking for it to be a hellcat. No one is asking for it to be a Mustang. One can appreciate the ethos of the car and feel like it can be better. Ask GT4 owners if they think the Cayman was ruined when it got the power it deserved.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

HAHAHAHA. the primacy isn't anywhere close to the S-04!

Post again once you've been on a set, they're not that good.

Only 0.2 seconds faster around Streets of Willow with Pobst behind the wheel, 7:25 for results.

Edit: Sorry this was already posted, guess it doesn't matter, oh well. Funny, you're willing to admit Michelin puts out tires that are better than most in their category but can't accept that the Primacy aren't that bad and the S04 aren't that good.



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqWD5BSeoY"]Testing Tires with Subaru BRZ, Ford Mustang & BMW 328i! The Downshift Ep. 65 - YouTube[/ame]

[guybo]

The Hellcat is not slower on the Streets of Willow Course. The guy in that video was playing around.

Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat Randy Pobst 1:26.87
The 86 ran a 1:30.something, they just needed a real driver in the seat to get a real time.

For $10 grand extra, the Miata is the same speed and carries 2 less passengers. If you take your blinders off and look at the whole picture, there's no comparison because $10 grand is a LOT of money and you don't get anything extra IMHO. That Miata is really expensive for what it is- very over-priced. They should have compared like-for-like and kept them within $1000

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by guybo

The Hellcat is not slower on the Streets of Willow Course. The guy in that video was playing around.

Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat Randy Pobst 1:26.87
The 86 ran a 1:30.something, they just needed a real driver in the seat to get a real time.

I had a lot of problems with this video and this was one of them. They showed the Hellcat sliding all over the track and made a point to say "this guy drives fast cars for a living and is really trying."

The whole time, I kept thinking, "If you really want to prove your point, let Randy drive and keep it apples to apples."

Outside of that, they said a few things that seemed contradictory. They said the 86 absolutely did not need more power. Then complained about the lack of torque and flat spots in the powerband and between shifts. I don't care what their stance is on power, be it yay or nay, but be consistent or explain yourself.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by guybo

The Hellcat is not slower on the Streets of Willow Course. The guy in that video was playing around.

Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat Randy Pobst 1:26.87
The 86 ran a 1:30.something, they just needed a real driver in the seat to get a real time.

For $10 grand extra, the Miata is the same speed and carries 2 less passengers. If you take your blinders off and look at the whole picture, there's no comparison because $10 grand is a LOT of money and you don't get anything extra IMHO. That Miata is really expensive for what it is- very over-priced. They should have compared like-for-like and kept them within $1000

[86Zed]

I said this once and I will say it again. Here's the short and sweet - Get the FR-S if you plan on spending serious time at the track, need real storage space, are not the type to ever drop the top or prefer the looks.

Simply put, the two cars are Mazda and Toyota's (also, Subaru) approach to accomplish the same thing. They feel SO similar and deliver the same style of thrills - I would not go so far to call either one definitively better than the other, it all depends on your personal preference and usage. Having owned an FR-S for 50K miles and an ND RF Miata for the past 1500 miles I feel somewhat qualified to judge.The RF Miata is primarily my wife's car and she really enjoys the convertible aspect and more refined Mazda interior (her words, not mine).

FYI, the RF was purchased $3K off MSRP so negotiation room is there to fight off some of that $$$ difference.

[DandoX]

Is the head2head on big willow or the streets of willow?

[Moue]

10,000USD difference. Wow