New C&D production BRZ review... "Porsche-like Handling"

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I think in this case the acoustics are the cause. Consider the 'double' torque peaks and the super flat upper range. I think the only way for the good low peak and the flat upper is with a pipe induced flat spot just like bikes. Tuning for two reflection factors puts a bad one in the middle.

I'll take your word for it. My point was just that torque dips sometimes are there by design and can be easily tuned out but the MFR decides not to for various reasons.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'll take your word for it. My point was just that torque dips sometimes are there by design and can be easily tuned out but the MFR decides not to for various reasons.

Yea, Honda motors could make more low end torque if they wanted it to, very easily, they just decided not to so they could reduce emissions and bump up fuel economy a tiny tiny percentage probably.

Not surprising this car is so slow 5-60, that low end is really really bad. Honda motors are actually decent on the low end if you consider that they rev to the moon, though they have more of a fuel economy goal on the low cam of course.

Compared to the Miata, it's understandable since the Miata engine makes its power at lower rpm so the low end torque should be better. This is going to be one of those engines that feels like it has no power at all below 2000. Also this engine is probably sensitive to gas quality since the low end depends on it.

[Deslock]

Article
Specs
Handwritten Sheet
Route Overview

Some notes:

0-60        6.3 sec
1/4 mile   14.9 sec

MPH at 7400 RPM
1st     36
2nd     58
3rd     84
4th    106
5th    128
6th    139 (6150)

Weight:
LF     757
RF     770
LR     629
RR     606
Total 2764

%FR   55.2/44.8
%LR   50.1/49.1
COG   18.0" high

A minor discrepancy: they have a rounding error for max speeds gears. If 2nd is really 58 MPH, then 1st is 35 MPH and 3rd is 83 MPH (not accounting for possible tire deformation). It seems more likely that 2nd should be 59 MPH.

Looks like the official curb weight (which includes fluids, fuel) is pretty accurate, which is slightly disappointing as I was hoping it'd be closer to 2700 pounds. It's no biggie as it's still a reasonable weight (and without fuel it ought to be ~2690 pounds).

As discussed, the 5-60 being a full 1.7 sec slower than 0-60 is surprising. For purposes of comparison, from caranddriver:

year car        0-60   5-60   diff
2013 BRZ        6.3    8.0    1.7
2009 WRX        4.7    6.3    1.6
2009 RX-8 R3    6.7    7.7    1.0
2006 MX-5       6.5    7.4    0.9
2005 RSX-S      6.2    6.9    0.7
2004 RX-8 (40k) 5.9    7.2    1.3
2004 RX-8 (new) 6.6    7.4    0.8
2003 S2k        5.4    6.9    1.5

Not sure why there's an even a larger difference than the S2k and WRX. The mid-range torque drop isn't enough to account for that... apparently this engine really lugs below 2000 RPM (at 5 MPH it's under 1000 RPM).

Originally Posted by jdrxb9

Is there a good way to do text tables on this forum?

I meant to respond to this last night... there isn't a good way, but [code] works OK (quote this post to see it in use).

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by Deslock

... there isn't a good way, but [code] works OK (quote this post to see it in use).

thanks for the tip
- the rest of the data then:

C&D						
			          0-60	5-60	1/4mi ET Trap

2013	Subaru	BRZ	          6.3	8.0	14.9	95
						
2007	Lotus	Elise	          4.8	5.8	13.6	102
2003	Honda	S2000	          5.4	7.0	14.1	99
2006	Pontiac	Solstice	  6.7	7.5	15.4	89
2006	Mazda	Miata	          6.7	7.6	15.2	91
						
2011	Ford	Mustang V6        5.4	5.8	14.0	104
2008	BMW	128i	          5.8	6.2	14.5	96
2009	Mazda	RX-8 R3	          6.3	7.2	14.9	94
2010	Hyundai	GC 2.0T	          7.0	7.7	15.3	92
2013	Hyundai	GC 2.0T	           na	na	na	na
						
2009	Subaru	WRX	          4.7	6.3	13.5	102
2005	Acura	RSX-S	          6.2	6.9	14.9	95
2010	Mazda	MS3	          5.8	7.0	14.3	100
2010	VW	GTI	          6.3	7.2	14.9	96
2010	VW	TDI	          8.0	8.7	16.2	85

[bucket]

Originally Posted by jdrxb9

thanks for the tip
- the rest of the data then:

[code]
C&D
0-60 5-60 1/4mi ET Trap

2013 Subaru BRZ 6.3 8.0 14.9 95
2010 Hyundai GC 2.0T 7.0 7.7 15.3 92

This has me a bit concerned...I thought that the GC 2.0T was an awful pig when I drove it, and the BRZ will be slower unless racing

[lpnnlp]

I think I found a cure for all this.... it's called an automatic transmission.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by bucket

This has me a bit concerned...I thought that the GC 2.0T was an awful pig when I drove it, and the BRZ will be slower unless racing

The reason for their 8.0 sec 5-60 is unknown, but as I wrote previously, "apparently this engine really lugs below 2000 RPM (at 5 MPH it's under 1000 RPM)."

If that's it, then all it means is the BRZ will will be slow if lugged from 5-10 MPH. Even with a gentle launch, I generally slip the clutch a bit so I'm not concerned.

As always, test drive before you buy.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by lpnnlp

I think I found a cure for all this.... it's called an automatic transmission.

How is that a cure? It's gearing is worse and likely even slower.

[DarkSunrise]

If you're hoping to win your daily stoplight grand-prix with a BRZ, you'll be sorely disappointed unless you launch at 4000 rpm. That's pretty much what the 5-60 result shows.

The BRZ isn't built for straight-lines, it's the wrong car to buy for that kind of fun.

[Draco-REX]

Looks like I may have to make that meme anyways.... :P

[Hanzo]

Just drove this today. Now I need my BRZ to compare haha.

[Dave-ROR]

Love that!!

[Alfie]

My parents just gave me their blessing to go for the '13 Boxster tonight! (out this summer)
Im still crazy for the ToyoBARU and I may buy one 5-10 years down the road when I need a back seat for baby~

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by Alfie

My parents just gave me their blessing to go for the '13 Boxster tonight! (out this summer)
Im still crazy for the ToyoBARU and I may buy one 5-10 years down the road when I need a back seat for baby~

Good for you. But you also summed up several reasons why I don't and won't buy Porsche.

Nothing personal, enjoy your new car when it comes out (btw, they introduced electrical power steering in 2013 models, which is reported as numb and non-Porsche, so test drive it first). Maybe getting previous year model is a better choice, if it matters to you.