Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Mrrksturr]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

@LucidMomentum, since you still have the throttle switch, you should probably let it rev to at least 3000 RPM's before you kick in the ESC. It's kind of like nitrous in a way. You only have so much stored capacity, and if you hit it too soon it just wastes it. Make sure to use your OFT and display MAP to see how much boost you're getting. Basically, it's every PSI over 14, (sea level) that's how much boost you're getting. I feel more power at 4000 RPMs and 15 PSI, than I do at 2000 RPMs and 17 PSI. The extra pressure doesn't seem to create power until the RPMs are up high enough. Bottom line, with the throttle switch, the ESC is occasional fun, while with the Procede, it can be constant fun. This morning, running V4 Sport-Procede map, and my most powerful tune, I drove Northeast on Germantown Rd, from left to right on pic below, through hairpins, switchbacks and high banked 10 and 15 MPH corners. It was constant fun!

Wow just realized you and I are very near to each other. This is totally off topic but, do you think you could bring me on a ride-along? I would love to experience the ESC first hand haha. I'm located near PDX

[KoolBRZ]

@Mrrksturr, you live in the home of the worst traffic within 100 miles. Any ride-along is going to have to be on my side of the river. That said, sure, we'll set something up. PM me your email address.
For any of you brave souls who tried the previous map, well, it had some flaws. Too much boost at less than 20% throttle causes shutdown/speedup/surging issues that look very embarrassing. I guess there is a pressure overload problem at low throttle or something, so I modified it for the better. I can't make V9 cough or stagger when I let off the throttle suddenly. There's no embarrassing surge, or stagger, yet it has a confident swagger. It really moves from a dead stop. above 30 or 40% pedal though, it's kind of weak until it gets to 70% then it really moves, so I made V10. I haven't tried it yet, but it will definitely be good up to 30%, and hopefully be good all the way to 100% pedal.
Edit; All my procede maps are getting the throttle percentages rescaled, since they aren't even close to what OFT shows, so Iremoved the maps I posted until they are re-scaled and more accurate, then I'll post them back up.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

@Mrrksturr, you live in the home of the worst traffic within 100 miles. Any ride-along is going to have to be on my side of the river. That said, sure, we'll set something up. PM me your email address.

For any of you brave souls who tried the previous map, well, it had some flaws. Too much boost at less than 20% throttle causes shutdown/speedup/surging issues that look very embarrassing. I guess there is a pressure overload problem at low throttle or something, so I modified it for the better. I can't make V9 cough or stagger when I let off the throttle suddenly. There's no embarrassing surge, or stagger, yet it has a confident swagger. It really moves from a dead stop. above 30 or 40% pedal though, it's kind of weak until it gets to 70% then it really moves, so I made V10. I haven't tried it yet, but it will definitely be good up to 30%, and hopefully be good all the way to 100% pedal.

Do you mind taking a picture of the map?


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[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

@KoolBRZ

When driving around how often does the blue square enter the lower throttle load areas?

I have found that for myself (MT) that the first few columns for the procede map need to be off (-100) or the car begins to stutter on some shifts. This is why on the maps I developed for the procede, I have most of the lower area off.

The only reason I say this is that when you begin developing the MT maps try to pay attention to this area. Those of us in MTs spend time in that area and when we depress the clutch, and let go of the gas... the ESC should activate it's brake for better drive-ability.

Thanks again for sharing your maps, its allowed me to go back to the drawing board on some of my own and take a closer look.

BTW- I hope to test your OFT tunes sometime this week.

I know what you mean about stutters after a shift. That V4 map would cough and spit after boosting and letting off the throttle suddenly. Worse yet it would cause some kind of overload at 15% throttle above 3000 RPMs. It would buck like a bronco, and it looked real embarrassing.
I've been watching the OFT readouts showing MAP, LOAD, and Throttle % while I drive, and it just seems to drive better when there is some boost between 10 and 20% throttle. It took me 3 tries today to find the right amount of boost at 15% throttle. V9 works good up to 30%, maybe 40%, then a bit weak until it picks up again at 70%. That's why I made V10. I haven't tried it yet, but I hope it will be good up to 100%. I'll let you all know tomorrow after I try it out.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I know what you mean about stutters after a shift. That V4 map would cough and spit after boosting and letting off the throttle suddenly. Worse yet it would cause some kind of overload at 15% throttle above 3000 RPMs. It would buck like a bronco, and it looked real embarrassing.

I've been watching the OFT readouts showing MAP, LOAD, and Throttle % while I drive, and it just seems to drive better when there is some boost between 10 and 20% throttle. It took me 3 tries today to find the right amount of boost at 15% throttle. V9 works good up to 30%, maybe 40%, then a bit weak until it picks up again at 70%. That's why I made V10. I haven't tried it yet, but I hope it will be good up to 100%. I'll let you all know tomorrow after I try it out.

Take a look at my v3 map. There's an entrance at about 2500 rpms and 30% throttle that works well for me. Maybe map that to a different location for AT?


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[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Do you mind taking a picture of the map?


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Here's a comparison of the overly frisky V4, the partiall perfect V9, and the last one is hopefully the best one yet, V10. Edit; added @sohjinn's version three below my V10. He's using a lot more boost, but it kicks in a little later.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Here's a comparison of the overly frisky V4, the partiall perfect V9, and the last one is hopefully the best one yet, V10.

On cruise you aren't activating boost? I don't think I could use this map at highway speeds.

Try blocking out your second column too for no power as a test if you run into any stuttering.


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[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

On cruise you aren't activating boost? I don't think I could use this map at highway speeds.

Try blocking out your second column too for no power as a test if you run into any stuttering.


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Why shouldn't it work on cruise? I know the difference between boosted and unboosted and it is definitely boosting on cruise with V9. While I can't see throttle % on cruise, I can see load, and the load is comparable to 15-20% throttle. The throttle % goes to 0% on cruise, but that just means the OFT can't see it, it doesn't mean the Procede can't see it.
Try V9 and tell me what you think. I couldn't make it stutter today, but I'm not driving a MT.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

How about a pic of your version 3? What makes you think it won't work on cruise? I know the difference between boosted and unboosted and it is definitely boosting on cruise with V9. While I can't see throttle % on cruise, I can see load, and the load is comparable to 15-20% throttle. The throttle % goes to 0% on cruise, but that just means the OFT can't see it, it doesn't mean the Procede can't see it.

Can't post currently the picture. I can do it tomorrow morning.

But what worries me is this: the area that my blue square would be in while cruising on your map would result in a partial boost situation.

What I did to balance my maps was to create a map like you have done and then began changing my numbers while driving. You can actually modify the map while driving with the laptop connected.

What I find to be most important on my tests was the entrance into boosting. A very minor boost input -40 or so, seems to help ease boost in. What I would recommend is to find out how your blue square moves while accelerating and then try to create two paths of boost increasing that results in the smoothest result.

The two paths being: hard acceleration and moderate acceleration.

If you download my map you can see how it was formed. But like I said I can post the picture tomorrow morning.




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[KoolBRZ]

Added your version 3 pic below the pics of my pics. When I tried that much boost that low, all I got was a wooshy noise till my RPM's built up higher. An AT has a constant load on the engine, and it's geared a lot taller, so there is less power to the wheels. I've found a constant push from 1000 RPM's on up seems to work better. The power doesn't seem to drop much until I get above -50.

[Robftss]

I would try to structure it this way:

Stock: 0-100% ETC (pedal) = 0-100% ETB (throttle valve)

Mod: 0-50% ETC = 0-100% ETB <this would be done with the OFT software>.....then 51-100% ETC = 0-100% <PROcede>

The percents above are just for illustration, but in the end all N/A is used up then boost applied. Boost occurs when the engine is @ max airflow @ all rpms and is not choked by a partially closed ETB.

It will take a lot of playing around to make it seamless.

[LucidMomentum]

For me, my vision of having the ESC was to get past the HP and Torque Dip in the 3K to 4.5K range. With the tune from KoolBRZ and some practice with the on-off switch at about 65% throttle, it's basically gone. I know that if I drive at around 50% throttle up until 2500 RPM then go to 70% throttle I can "bypass" that dip with the FI boost.


If I could do the same in a similar manner using the procede so I don't have to "time" it myself, that would be ideal for driving it on back roads as I wouldn't have to worry about it myself.


So as long as I don't have to mash the throttle to get over the torque dip, I'd be happy with the Procede. Just automating something for me so I can focus more on the driving, as it would be more linear and less of an all at once thing to confuse me halfway through a corner. Sometimes I can't really afford to have the throttle at 70% but I'd love having like 1-2 PSI of boost to keep speed, which is why I want to get the procede ordered soon.


I've had the kit on for a few days and I already notice there are times where partial boost would be great, but full boost would be too much so I lay off the throttle. I imagine when shifting becomes involved as with a MT, you'd want the boost distribution handled for you even more as you have to account for shifting as well.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Robftss

I would try to structure it this way:

Stock: 0-100% ETC (pedal) = 0-100% ETB (throttle valve)

Mod: 0-50% ETC = 0-100% ETB <this would be done with the OFT software>.....then 51-100% ETC = 0-100% <PROcede>

The percents above are just for illustration, but in the end all N/A is used up then boost applied. Boost occurs when the engine is @ max airflow @ all rpms and is not choked by a partially closed ETB.

It will take a lot of playing around to make it seamless.

The reason I want the ESC to start boosting as soon as possible, is to compensate for the lack of low-end torque. I've learned quite a bit from adjusting the AVCS tables like I have, and I've used high lift just to get more velocity at low rpms, but it can only do so much when the intake runners are too large and too short to sustain a higher velocity at low rpms. The AT's are particularly affected by this, since the gearing is taller, and they are under constant load when in "D" mode. The only time I want boost off, is when I'm slowing down.
I know what you mean about a partially closed throttle plate. I think it has been too much boost against a partially closed throttle plate actually forcing it closed which has caused the stuttering and bucking in low load high rpm situations. I've found though, that it doesn't occur if the boost is low enough. I aim to find the limit at low loads and program the map for just under the stutter limit.
Since the MT's are going to spend a lot more time at low load/high rpm, programming below the "Stutter Limit" will be more critical for a MT then it will for an AT. I think that is the next challenge for us Procede tuners, finding the "Stutter Limits" at each low-load/high-rpm cell to keep it just below the limits.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Can't post currently the picture. I can do it tomorrow morning.
But what worries me is this: the area that my blue square would be in while cruising on your map would result in a partial boost situation.
What I did to balance my maps was to create a map like you have done and then began changing my numbers while driving. You can actually modify the map while driving with the laptop connected.
What I find to be most important on my tests was the entrance into boosting. A very minor boost input -40 or so, seems to help ease boost in. What I would recommend is to find out how your blue square moves while accelerating and then try to create two paths of boost increasing that results in the smoothest result.
The two paths being: hard acceleration and moderate acceleration.
If you download my map you can see how it was formed. But like I said I can post the picture tomorrow morning.
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I didn't want to attempt that while driving, but you gave me an idea. I noticed the throttle numbers don't line up with the OFT readout AT ALL. So I started at 20% and started pushing down the throttle till it was just about to jump into the 30% box, and noted that percentage on the OFT readout to put in the Procede 25% box. I kept pushing down and noting numbers and they started getting pretty screwy. I recalibrated my Procede throttle just to be sure, but found out it is definitely NOT linear. See my pic of what I call my "TrueScale" version of throttle mapping. Look closely at the throttle percentage numbers on top. They go from closer together, to farther apart, then closer again. It's really weird. But, the only way to map it logically, is to start with correct scaling. I checked the RPM scale as well, it was consistently about 100 rpms too high, so I lowered those as well. Here's a pic of my latest, "TrueScale" map. This might not hold true for everyone, so I recommend checking your throttle scaling against the OFT readout to be sure.