Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread - Page 642 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

j_Zer0 · 07-06-2015, 01:56 PM

My ESC review
[I'm sure I'll be repeating much of what many others have said about the kit, but hopefully this will be of some use nonetheless.]

The Wait
First, like many have said before me, this kit is worth waiting for. I asked to be added to the list 8/26/14 and I received my kit 7/03/15. I waited just over 10 months, and I'm glad I did.

The ESC vs. Vortech / Sprintex
I had three main goals in mind when I decided the ESC looked like my best upgrade option:
(1) to achieve noticeably higher torque
(2) to stick with OFT/OFH-friendly parts
(3) to give myself the best possible chance of maintaining my warranty

I considered the OFT300 (until I found out there was no 6AT tune) and the Sprintex kit. Had there been a 6AT tune for the OFT300 the choice between the Vortech and the ESC would've been more difficult, but it still would've been true that I could get the ESC AND new wheels/tires for the price of adding the Vortech kit to my OFT/OFH. The full-time FI and low-to-mid range torque of the Sprintex kit was attractive, but it would've been significantly more expensive since I would've had to go Ecutek and either give up the OFH or get a custom tune. And neither Sprintex nor Vortech is (feasibly) reversible for dealer visits.

Communication / Support / Customer Service
I don't have much experience on this side of things. However, I can say that Fenton made sure that I had everything I was going to need. He was responsive to PMs and made sure all my questions were answered.

Sojhinn's 2.0 install video is a must watch once you're ready to bolt it on. Beyond that, there is a mature, knowledgeable community of owners here who can help you with whatever you need.

Installation
From unpacking parts to flashing the new tune took me about 4 hours. I was definitely taking my time, studying each component, watching and rewatching Sojhinn's install video, making sure I did everything right the first time, etc. Experienced car guys can probably do the whole thing in 2 hours or less. I wouldn't say that anything about the install process is difficult. It turned out that my kit was missing the hardware for mounting the controller, but this wasn't anything that a quick trip to Harbor Freight couldn't fix. I'd recommend you pick up some extra electrical wire shielding tubing -- my kit had plenty of zip ties but only one shielding tube. I was somewhat disappointed to see that my kit didn't have some of the finishing touches you can see in Sojhinn's video (mainly the Phantom branding/logo stuff).

Driving Impressions
The first time I engaged boost with the ESC I thought: "Yes! THAT'S what I wanted this car to be like!" Keep in mind, we're talking about a few PSI -- the ESC
doesn't make the car V8 powerful. But the difference is quite noticeable. The torque under boost feels right to me now. I do have some knock (up to -3 FKLC) at WOT. Hopefully I can tune this out.

Pedal Switch
I didn't like the pedal switch very much at first because I found it difficult to be precise enough with my foot to engage partial boost when I wanted to. It's gotten a bit easier with some practice, but I still think the pedal switch is what holds the kit back. You can bend the actuator bar on the switch (thanks Sojhinn) to adjust the % throttle at which first (partial boost) and second clicks (full boost) happen, but the distance between the first and second clicks is fixed (it seems to be around 25% between them). This means you can't have partial boost engage at 50% and full boost at 90%, for example. I think the Procede is going to be the way to go.

Adjusting the pedal switch
As Sojhinn points out in his 2.0 install video, the OFT real time data display can be pretty helpful in determining the % throttle at which your clicks are happening. I found, however, that there was a difference of around 25% in how the OFT reads throttle position depending on whether you're sitting in your garage (engine off) or driving down the street. For example, I found that with my engine off my OFT read throttle at 40% on first click. I thought "wow, that's way too soon for partial boost" so I set about bending the crap out of the arm. Then when I got out on the street I found first click was happening around 75%. TL;DR: if your OFT reads throttle position at 40% on first click with your engine off, that is likely to translate into 65% on the street.

A single criticism
The one criticsm I have of the kit is that the voltage display is difficult to read during the day. Is there any way to adjust brightness, etc?

WNDSRFR · 07-06-2015, 02:23 PM

Fenton
Does the latest kit come with the new bigger compressor wheel or is yours a one of a kind experiment?

Fareast auto part · 07-06-2015, 02:25 PM

Great review j ZerO, I will be getting my kit in about a week so this is quite helpful.

Urmyson · 07-06-2015, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Fenton
Does the latest kit come with the new bigger compressor wheel or is yours a one of a kind experiment?

Pretty sure they are just testing it, but I would upgrade in a second if it gives another 20 HP.

fenton · 07-07-2015, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Fenton
Does the latest kit come with the new bigger compressor wheel or is yours a one of a kind experiment?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urmyson

Pretty sure they are just testing it, but I would upgrade in a second if it gives another 20 HP.

Its a complete test right now. The new wheel is alot more expensive so we have to make sure that it is going to do anything to positively affect performance.

Right now it seems to pick up about half a pound of boost, this wont translate into 20hp but maybe 10?

Rob is looking to go to the dyno sometime in the summer, he's going on holidays for a bit at the end of July so maybe early August.

taiquach · 07-09-2015, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenton

clockwise should adjust it....just log boost and see it change. I believe each half rotation should be .25 psi or so......I have mine set to give about 1.5 psi and I think that is about the max you want to go for drivability sake.

Lmk how it goes.

hi fenton , i have raised the partial boost to the (max) 2 psi and car run fantastic , i can really feel the extra kick when it engage. i forgot to mention that my car was an automatic and i dd it. so far i have only driven the car for a couple day since i raised the partial boost , will report back if there is a problem. thanks

WNDSRFR · 07-09-2015, 03:58 PM

What with the talk about more efficient compressor wheels and liquid cooling,
I had this crazy idea.
What would happen if you added a second alternator (28VDC generator) dedicated to driving the ESC full time. Of course the electric motor would have to be liquid cooled to keep it from frying but is there any reason why it wouldn't work?
Yeah I know it adds to the cost and complexity of this wonderfully simple and efficient system but I'm just dreaming of how far this technology can go.

Target70 · 07-09-2015, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

What with the talk about more efficient compressor wheels and liquid cooling,
I had this crazy idea.
What would happen if you added a second alternator (28VDC generator) dedicated to driving the ESC full time. Of course the electric motor would have to be liquid cooled to keep it from frying but is there any reason why it wouldn't work?
Yeah I know it adds to the cost and complexity of this wonderfully simple and efficient system but I'm just dreaming of how far this technology can go.

The main reason the system makes more power with less boost vs traditional FI, is the storage principle, aka batteries. It saves up the power and drags on the engine when you are not using it, and then releases all the saved up energy and stops dragging on the engine. I'm not sure the extra power created by the boost, would overcome the added drag on the engine from the alternator, if the drag existed while you engage it. "principles of the transfer of energy?"
But with an alternator constantly dragging on the engine, even if you did end up with any additional power it would be much less than the current design.
You did make me think though. No form of energy conversion is 100% efficient, you loose power along the way, usually in the form of heat. The process of the engine creating 12v via the alternator, then converting it to a stable/filtered ~28v signal compatible with charging the dump pack is somewhat inefficient, this is shown by the overheating of the controller. I think this is the reason that Rob couldn't get the larger compressor to work correctly. But if you were to install a separate ~28v alternator, dedicated to charging the dump packs, this could take much of the load off the controller, saving the wasted energy, and keeping the controller cooler. I'm not sure how much if any real world benefit you would see, but I think it's an interesting concept.

WNDSRFR · 07-11-2015, 10:48 AM

Yes everything you said makes a lot of sense.

How about this other crazy idea I've been thinking about for over a year now. It has to do with the construction of the compressor wheel. The current wheel seems to be constructed of some sort of machined metal. It looks like it could very well be the single most expensive part of the kit.

I was wondering if the wheel could be constructed of molded carbon fiber or even glass filled plastic? It would be lighter weight (more efficient) and much cheaper to produce. And before anyone mentions that it couldn't handle the RPM's, I have an RC electric jet with an electric motor spinning a plastic fan at about 100,000 RPM. And it works just fine. Admittedly it's spinning a fan blade and not a compressor but I think it may just work.

vfrqqq · 07-11-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

I was wondering if the wheel could be constructed of molded carbon fiber or even glass filled plastic? It would be lighter weight (more efficient) and much cheaper to produce. And before anyone mentions that it couldn't handle the RPM's, I have an RC electric jet with an electric motor spinning a plastic fan at about 100,000 RPM. And it works just fine. Admittedly it's spinning a fan blade and not a compressor but I think it may just work.

Sounds like that would take a lot of R&D to prove out/ensure quality.

KoolBRZ · 07-11-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

Sounds like that would take a lot of R&D to prove out/ensure quality.

Certain Nissan Skyline GTR's came stock with ceramic turbo blades. They are known to shatter at pressures over 14 PSI. That said, I don't see any reason a mold couldn't be made of a metal blade and injection cast with high pressure-high temp plastic.

continuecrushing · 07-11-2015, 04:12 PM

were getting pretty complicated here guys, lol

But I do enjoy the different thoughts/ideas.

vfrqqq · 07-11-2015, 07:18 PM

Yeah, these are the ideas/possibilities to be pursued by a major auto manufacturer when they develop an ESC (i.e., Audi, M-B, Volvo, etc.). There are many areas for improvement, but as far as this system/development effort is concerned, the mix of affordability for the performance is main focus.

murselyfe · 07-11-2015, 11:21 PM

I've had my kit for a few weeks now.

It's still not installed... @DAEMANO lol

07-06-2015, 01:56 PM	#8975
j_Zer0 Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: Asphalt FRS 2014 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 89 Thanks: 37 Thanked 29 Times in 13 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	My ESC review [I'm sure I'll be repeating much of what many others have said about the kit, but hopefully this will be of some use nonetheless.] The Wait First, like many have said before me, this kit is worth waiting for. I asked to be added to the list 8/26/14 and I received my kit 7/03/15. I waited just over 10 months, and I'm glad I did. The ESC vs. Vortech / Sprintex I had three main goals in mind when I decided the ESC looked like my best upgrade option: (1) to achieve noticeably higher torque (2) to stick with OFT/OFH-friendly parts (3) to give myself the best possible chance of maintaining my warranty I considered the OFT300 (until I found out there was no 6AT tune) and the Sprintex kit. Had there been a 6AT tune for the OFT300 the choice between the Vortech and the ESC would've been more difficult, but it still would've been true that I could get the ESC AND new wheels/tires for the price of adding the Vortech kit to my OFT/OFH. The full-time FI and low-to-mid range torque of the Sprintex kit was attractive, but it would've been significantly more expensive since I would've had to go Ecutek and either give up the OFH or get a custom tune. And neither Sprintex nor Vortech is (feasibly) reversible for dealer visits. Communication / Support / Customer Service I don't have much experience on this side of things. However, I can say that Fenton made sure that I had everything I was going to need. He was responsive to PMs and made sure all my questions were answered. Sojhinn's 2.0 install video is a must watch once you're ready to bolt it on. Beyond that, there is a mature, knowledgeable community of owners here who can help you with whatever you need. Installation From unpacking parts to flashing the new tune took me about 4 hours. I was definitely taking my time, studying each component, watching and rewatching Sojhinn's install video, making sure I did everything right the first time, etc. Experienced car guys can probably do the whole thing in 2 hours or less. I wouldn't say that anything about the install process is difficult. It turned out that my kit was missing the hardware for mounting the controller, but this wasn't anything that a quick trip to Harbor Freight couldn't fix. I'd recommend you pick up some extra electrical wire shielding tubing -- my kit had plenty of zip ties but only one shielding tube. I was somewhat disappointed to see that my kit didn't have some of the finishing touches you can see in Sojhinn's video (mainly the Phantom branding/logo stuff). Driving Impressions The first time I engaged boost with the ESC I thought: "Yes! THAT'S what I wanted this car to be like!" Keep in mind, we're talking about a few PSI -- the ESC doesn't make the car V8 powerful. But the difference is quite noticeable. The torque under boost feels right to me now. I do have some knock (up to -3 FKLC) at WOT. Hopefully I can tune this out. Pedal Switch I didn't like the pedal switch very much at first because I found it difficult to be precise enough with my foot to engage partial boost when I wanted to. It's gotten a bit easier with some practice, but I still think the pedal switch is what holds the kit back. You can bend the actuator bar on the switch (thanks Sojhinn) to adjust the % throttle at which first (partial boost) and second clicks (full boost) happen, but the distance between the first and second clicks is fixed (it seems to be around 25% between them). This means you can't have partial boost engage at 50% and full boost at 90%, for example. I think the Procede is going to be the way to go. Adjusting the pedal switch As Sojhinn points out in his 2.0 install video, the OFT real time data display can be pretty helpful in determining the % throttle at which your clicks are happening. I found, however, that there was a difference of around 25% in how the OFT reads throttle position depending on whether you're sitting in your garage (engine off) or driving down the street. For example, I found that with my engine off my OFT read throttle at 40% on first click. I thought "wow, that's way too soon for partial boost" so I set about bending the crap out of the arm. Then when I got out on the street I found first click was happening around 75%. TL;DR: if your OFT reads throttle position at 40% on first click with your engine off, that is likely to translate into 65% on the street. A single criticism The one criticsm I have of the kit is that the voltage display is difficult to read during the day. Is there any way to adjust brightness, etc? __________________ ESC+OFH \| Borla Axleback \| Helix clear side markers \| Opti-coat \| Beatsonic v2 Sharkfin antenna \| TRD lowering springs \| TRD sway bars \| 18" Enkei Kojins + PSSs

07-11-2015, 11:21 PM	#8988
murselyfe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Drives: It's black. Location: 310. Posts: 206 Thanks: 120 Thanked 145 Times in 68 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've had my kit for a few weeks now. It's still not installed... @DAEMANO lol __________________ 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited- Crystal Black Silica

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07-06-2015, 02:23 PM	#8976
WNDSRFR Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Drives: FR-S,GTI Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,155 Thanks: 228 Thanked 824 Times in 419 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Fenton Does the latest kit come with the new bigger compressor wheel or is yours a one of a kind experiment?

07-06-2015, 02:25 PM	#8977
Fareast auto part Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Drives: 2013 Toyota 86 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 20 Thanks: 71 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Great review j ZerO, I will be getting my kit in about a week so this is quite helpful.

07-09-2015, 03:58 PM	#8981
WNDSRFR Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Drives: FR-S,GTI Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,155 Thanks: 228 Thanked 824 Times in 419 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	What with the talk about more efficient compressor wheels and liquid cooling, I had this crazy idea. What would happen if you added a second alternator (28VDC generator) dedicated to driving the ESC full time. Of course the electric motor would have to be liquid cooled to keep it from frying but is there any reason why it wouldn't work? Yeah I know it adds to the cost and complexity of this wonderfully simple and efficient system but I'm just dreaming of how far this technology can go.

07-11-2015, 10:48 AM	#8983
WNDSRFR Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Drives: FR-S,GTI Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,155 Thanks: 228 Thanked 824 Times in 419 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yes everything you said makes a lot of sense. How about this other crazy idea I've been thinking about for over a year now. It has to do with the construction of the compressor wheel. The current wheel seems to be constructed of some sort of machined metal. It looks like it could very well be the single most expensive part of the kit. I was wondering if the wheel could be constructed of molded carbon fiber or even glass filled plastic? It would be lighter weight (more efficient) and much cheaper to produce. And before anyone mentions that it couldn't handle the RPM's, I have an RC electric jet with an electric motor spinning a plastic fan at about 100,000 RPM. And it works just fine. Admittedly it's spinning a fan blade and not a compressor but I think it may just work.

07-11-2015, 04:12 PM	#8986
continuecrushing Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 Firestorm FRS Location: Lake Elsinore, CA Posts: 2,707 Thanks: 1,231 Thanked 2,144 Times in 1,003 Posts Mentioned: 73 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	were getting pretty complicated here guys, lol But I do enjoy the different thoughts/ideas.

07-11-2015, 07:18 PM	#8987
vfrqqq Ultra Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Drives: 2014 BRZ Premium, WRB Location: East Coast, US Posts: 209 Thanks: 43 Thanked 60 Times in 37 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yeah, these are the ideas/possibilities to be pursued by a major auto manufacturer when they develop an ESC (i.e., Audi, M-B, Volvo, etc.). There are many areas for improvement, but as far as this system/development effort is concerned, the mix of affordability for the performance is main focus.

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