EcuTek vs BRZ-Edit

[NotSoJDM]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

There is somewhat of a middle ground; some software we work with allows the tuner to assign a level of adjustability to the calibration. this allows the enduser to mess with stuff like MAF transfer, and some scalars, as well as limiters, but protects things like hard won cam timing table input, etc.

I'm curious, can you elaborate on what software allows this? I wasn't aware functionality like that existed.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by Toma

It's all a symptom of our sick corporatist market system. Its to the point of not ever owning what you buy anymore. You are just paying for stuff and that grants you rights to limited use.

That's me, a corporatist, LOL. But let me ask you this; where were you when I was shelling out 200k for our building, and 90K each for our dynos. I don't recall seeing you standing there telling the contractor or dynapack that they should share because we all get some good out of these products.

Not trying to be an bad guy here, but you have to understand that this is a for profit thing. I don't do this because its a hobby. Yes, I love it, almost as much as I love racing, but this is a very expensive business to be in, and believe it or not, the margins are not that big

[swift996]

Originally Posted by Toma

It's all a symptom of our sick corporatist market system. Its to the point of not ever owning what you buy anymore. You are just paying for stuff and that grants you rights to limited use.

Its actually the legal/regulatory function that drives a lot of the limits into products. A free market would inherently allow more freedom as it always does.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by NotSoJDM

I'm curious, can you elaborate on what software allows this? I wasn't aware functionality like that existed.

in fact some of Epifans own sw does this.

There has been some discussion from EcuTek about enduser sw with a level system, that allows the master to "set" the level on a (please pardon the term) "downline" software

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

There has been some discussion from EcuTek about enduser sw with a level system, that allows the master to "set" the level on a (please pardon the term) "downline" software

has this gained any traction from ecutek?

[Dodzilla]

I'm with mad_sb, I want to be able to tune my own car and I want access to whatever tune my car is running. Open source would be ideal, BRZEdit will have to do until that's available.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

has this gained any traction from ecutek?

they in fact are the ones that are talking about it, and ask us, as master tuners, what our input was.

Like JV, I support end user sw. BUT, and this is the rub, there are some areas that I don't want to share. So this would be a good deal

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

Ah, so all the work we put into developing a calibration should just be given to everyone? what if your the guy that paid us to tune your car, first on the list, so to speak, you think its then fair for your buddy, down the street to just copy it without paying any of what you did?

You don't see tailors doing anything to protect their custom fitted clothes because they are useless to anyone but the person they were made for. And just like a pair of jeans sitting on the shelf, there will be base maps available for every typical "stage" upgrade.

BTW, we are not "hiding" anything. your paying me for results, not for code. You want the code, we will develop it for you, you pay us, then its yours to do with what you like. But your name gos on it, not ours. We have done this for several manufactures over the years, and I have no problem with it on that basis

After everyone in the world could read and flash their own ECU there was encryption. It most certainly IS being hidden. Extra steps have been taken by ecutek to ensure it. Before OpenECU came out, there was no encryption.

The market determines what goods and services are worth, not your costs. Fortunately for you the market is evolving very, very slowly. If I could stand the exhaust sound I'd buy a Honda and join the 21st century of tuning.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by qoncept

You don't see tailors doing anything to protect their custom fitted clothes because they are useless to anyone but the person they were made for. And just like a pair of jeans sitting on the shelf, there will be base maps available for every typical "stage" upgrade.


After everyone in the world could read and flash their own ECU there was encryption. It most certainly IS being hidden. Extra steps have been taken by ecutek to ensure it. Before OpenECU came out, there was no encryption.

The market determines what goods and services are worth, not your costs. Fortunately for you the market is evolving very, very slowly.

Ahh, so your saying that you should be able to go buy a car and the manufacturer should hand you the source code? LOL

Open source did not define the market, they in fact copied quite a bit of it from companies like Ecutek.

I support you in your wish to tune your own car. About 20% of our business is repairing butchered rom files from customers who get in way over their heads. So believe me, I FULLY support your objective

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

Ahh, so your saying that you should be able to go buy a car and the manufacturer should hand you the source code? LOL

No, I didn't say that at all.

Open source did not define the market, they in fact copied quite a bit of it from companies like Ecutek.

I was wondering when you were going to start quoting Ecutek propaganda. It's simply not true. Epifan might (might - I don't know) have, but no one associated with the open source projects did.

I would know. And I spent too many hours of my life for you to call me a thief. I've never even seen Ecutek's software.

I support you in your wish to tune your own car. About 20% of our business is repairing butchered rom files from customers who get in way over their heads. So believe me, I FULLY support your objective

It's not about tuning your own car. It's about not paying outrageous license fees and not owning the data you paid for. I'm not a tuner, I'm a programmer and a consumer.

Explain to me how Honda tuners do it. There are a couple professional tuners who encrypt their Hondata maps and tons who don't. How do they stay in business, just giving it away like that? The market is evolving incredibly slow but it IS evolving. There will always be a market for professional tuners, but the market for professional tuners who don't give the customer what they want will get smaller. Proud to say my state of Iowa is mostly free of that.

[ft_sjo]

I find it pretty disrespectful when you get a bunch of open sores/laptop warriors who think they're tuners/engineers and then bitch at professionals for not wanting to share what they may have spent decades learning.

And no, most commercial products you buy today are not 'open' for you to modify.

[EAGLE5]

I eagerly await open source tuning. I want to be able to play with the tune and learn more about the car without paying for an excessively expensive license in addition to an expensive tune. I would still consider paying for a tune, just not a tune and a license and still more to be able to modify the tune myself. At that point, hydraems looks good. So much more powerful.

[Toma]

Greed.

First time ever playing with brzedit and Subaru and I made the same or better power than any mail order tune I've tested since. Took about 3 hours figuring out the new software and doing the tune. Big deal. It's not rocket science or Bethovens fifth.

So. Charge for your time and live with the product you have sold. Expecting residual rights to something you did once in the past is total corporatism.

I come from a communist country, and of all places, when I bought something there I actually owned it. All that free market corporatism does is protect profits at the expense of consumers, and you never actually own what your hard earned money bought.

Want sympathy and protect your 'brainchild'? Get a patent.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

your paying me for results, not for code. You want the code, we will develop it for you, you pay us, then its yours to do with what you like. But your name gos on it, not ours.

that would be fantastic, if that were actually possible. ecutek doesn't provide a mechanism by which to 'do with what you like'. they ensure that in order to modify said file you're either paying another ecutek vendor or starting from scratch.

no one is suggesting people should be allowed or able to copy files from car to car freely. there can be (and already exist) protections put in place against that. again this argument comes up as if piracy and dependency are interconnected issues. they are not. they can be handled completely independently of one another. i don't need permission to copy my file to another vin in order to modify it for my own purposes on my own vehicle.

that said, there exists a huge market opportunity for a vendor who were to sell cheap brzedit startup maps for fi and what not. they're not perfect, but they work well enough to get you to a dyno and save bootstrapping time, and thus have value and a market. these will eventually come to exist in this market as they have in others (evo, subaru, etc).

what people want is to own the work they paid for, and to be able to do what you just described, which is currently not possible with ecutek.