Manual tranny takes another step into oblivion

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by borge12

And with the average being 20.8 deaths / 100,000 people, and the US at 12.3 deaths /100,000, I think we can safely say that correlation does not imply causation.

Countries like GB, France, and Germany have half the death rate of the US. That's pretty significant.

I'm not implying that a car's gearbox have anything to do with it. But I do believe it is a symptom of an underlying problem, lack of attentiveness to driving. Manuals give you more control over the gear changes, so they can be faster(depends now), or more fuel efficient, which is more important in heavily fuel taxed Western Europe.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Just curious how many people took their exam in a manual?

I took my test in my own manual car, but the common thinking was, learn on manual, test on auto.

I learned/tested on an auto, because that is all we had at the time. But that is what my parents recommended anyway for a newbie driving.

[ZSwierczynski]

First car was a manual. I hated the car but the price was right for that car, 0 dollars . My second car which I paid and put in the transmission and other needed items, was $3000. Manual too but got rid of because I was moving to California and at the time I wasn't working so I could not afford the gas without not eating. My car which I am driving now, is an automatic. They make them into manual but it was my dads and my stepmom occasionally drove it and she cannot drive stick. If I go back to stick, it needs to be a sport car, not an economically vehicle.

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by madfast

he said "lock up feature" which means early lock up. for example the IS-F has lock up on gears 2-8 in manual mode. even though most cars have lock up torque converters, many of them dont lock up unless you're cruising.

Ahhh... didn't think of that interpretation. I would have said early/aggressive/wide range lock-up or something like that. Totally didn't occur to me that adjective-less lock-up could mean that haha

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Simple questions:
Is it easier to learn on an auto or a manual?

Therefore does learning and getting tested on a manual make it more difficult to get a license?

Would it be one small step towards a more stringent and effective licensing system?

learn what, to drive a car in the most basic sense of the word or to navigate through a sea of other metal boxes operated by people on a daily basis?

whether a car is AT or MT has little impact on learning the general awareness required to operate a vehicle on public roads intelligently.

also, my own personal preference is that having an automatic car for stop and go traffic is a pain in the ass, i would rather be forced to work a little harder to get my car to move rather than have the car move forward on its own during a brain fart moment.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

learn what, to drive a car in the most basic sense of the word or to navigate through a sea of other metal boxes operated by people on a daily basis?

whether a car is AT or MT has little impact on learning the general awareness required to operate a vehicle on public roads intelligently.

also, my own personal preference is that having an automatic car for stop and go traffic is a pain in the ass, i would rather be forced to work a little harder to get my car to move rather than have the car move forward on its own during a brain fart moment.

I know enough people in Metro Vancouver that would probably rather take public transit than pay to fail a driving test if it required a manual. People are lazy, and have enough trouble navigating the metal box sea as it is. Plus with all of these private driver 'training' businesses, coupled with examiners apathy to oblivious drivers because people 'need' to be able to drive (not even counting the few 'buy a license' scandals we've had here), the manual transmission exam (coupled with examiners that took their job seriously) would actually be a very effective filtering tool. At least in Vancouver.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...e-0d225eb5de21

And if you think that catching this one has fixed it, oh boy...

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I know enough people in Metro Vancouver that would probably rather take public transit than pay to fail a driving test if it required a manual. People are lazy, and have enough trouble navigating the metal box sea as it is. Plus with all of these private driver 'training' businesses, coupled with examiners apathy to oblivious drivers because people 'need' to be able to drive (not even counting the few 'buy a license' scandals we've had here), the manual transmission exam (coupled with examiners that took their job seriously) would actually be a very effective filtering tool. At least in Vancouver.

again, your whole argument is predicated on the notion that it is difficult to drive a manual. it is not. if manuals were required for the test, then people would just learn manual, pass the test, get a license, then crash. you have it in engrained in your mind that most people cant learn manual and perform well enough to pass a test. where that idea comes from, only god knows. what i do know is that it does nothing to curb people from being inattentive behind the wheel.

[7thgear]

i don't know how kids see this whole MT/AT thing nowdays, but back in the 90's driving manual meant you were one mother fucking bad ass mother fucker.

today i don't think many people care, they don't want to bother understanding and just think manual is a relic from the industrial revolution :P

back in the day i'd have my peers' eyes sparkle when they got in my car and saw that i had a standard

nowadays people don't notice, half way through a trip they are like "why are you always moving your shifter, isnt that bad?"

derp

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by madfast

again, your whole argument is predicated on the notion that it is difficult to drive a manual. it is not. if manuals were required for the test, then people would just learn manual, pass the test, get a license, then crash. you have it in engrained in your mind that most people cant learn manual and perform well enough to pass a test. where that idea comes from, only god knows. what i do know is that it does nothing to curb people from being inattentive behind the wheel.

Completely disagree. Every little thing that makes is more difficult for retards to get their license is an improvement.

Go read the link I posted (and there are more than that single incident, just here). People are so bad that they need to bribe examiners and probably justify it to themselves that well they CAN operate the car (turn, stop, go) and NEED to drive. Examiner are likely lax for the same logic, even without the bribes.

Now if you add the complexity of the clutch (starting on a hill), gear selection (being at the right rpm for merging, etc...), plus the stress of the exam, more people WILL be filtered out. Some would even give up before even trying (at least around here). And this would be ultimately beneficial.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Completely disagree. Every little thing that makes is more difficult for retards to get their license is an improvement.

Go read the link I posted (and there are more than that single incident, just here). People are so bad that they need to bribe examiners and probably justify it to themselves that well they CAN operate the car (turn, stop, go) and NEED to drive. Examiner are likely lax for the same logic, even without the bribes.

anybody bad enough that they'd have to bribe their way to a license wouldnt be able to drive, period. AT vs MT doesnt matter in these cases.

Now if you add the complexity of the clutch (starting on a hill), gear selection (being at the right rpm for merging, etc...), plus the stress of the exam, more people WILL be filtered out. Some would even give up before even trying (at least around here). And this would be ultimately beneficial.

Hill start? that's a test of coordination.
gear selection? anybody who has ever ridden a bicycle knows the basics of shifting. thats all the practical knowledge they need for everyday driving.
stress of the exam? puh-leez...
give up before they try? meh. they'd more than likely bribe someone...

[LSxJunkie]

And around and around we go. Clearly no minds will be changed here.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by madfast

anybody bad enough that they'd have to bribe their way to a license wouldnt be able to drive, period. AT vs MT doesnt matter in these cases.

I believe it has less to do with ability to drive and more to do with status of citizenship.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

And around and around we go. Clearly no minds will be changed here.

It's slow. No official pricing yet...

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's slow. No official pricing yet...

And then everyone will be up in arms because if it's anywhere over $5 for a dozen, everyone will say its too damned expensive.